I could dedicate myself to this.

---------------------
Written for:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EcoVillage-Belize

cc'ing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurCultureOurCapitol (OCOC)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ishmael-dc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nyc-ishmael
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/derrickjensen_discussion

(I value criticism / feedback - especially posted on OCOC)

This is a long and not organized, but I want this out so I
can sleep and not think about it. & have your minds start to
react.
-----------------------------------


I have finished reading John Zerzan and Derrick Jensen.
While there is much more of their and related work I hope to
read, I've now decided that I am _excited_ about the
philosophy / ideology behind this project, and I'm turning
my Focus to Belize. What little I've learned about Belize
excites me more.

I still have questions about how the founding philosophies
will be put in place and how they will affect the
ecovillage, but my greatest concern now is that this thing
actually happen.

I have asked the question, "If this project did not exist,
would I want to found it myself?" And the answer is yes
(but not for a long while- after having wandered more).

Here is my vision:

(
first though- if you have not read _A language Older than
words_ and at least some Zerzan,

http://www.eco-action.org/dt/futureprim.html
http://sacredlands.org/enemyofthestate_zerzan.htm

plan to do so.

I believe that Jensen may be the Thomas Paine for our
revolution-- I am now waiting for
"the declaration of interdependence"
)

There are many people who are not satisfied with the way
things have been going. They are looking for alternatives.

This project is to demonstrate another way is possible.


======================
I'll summarize authors mentioned by Raphael on the web
site, in how they most affected me:

Daniel Quinn:

There is a serious problem. We need new visions, not more
programs. Tribe of Crow.

Derrick Jensen:

There is a serious problem. Our culture is designed to
destroy the earth. (He elaborates this in much greater
detail than Quinn - and very effectively.).

We need to create a culture where those whose actions
benefit themselves at the expense of the group are
extinguished, banished from participation in the group. (p
364 _alotw_). --where the group is all living and non-living
non-human made things-- And where those whose actions
benefit the entire group are respected the most.

(I have also been influenced by Brian Czech's book
http://www.steadystate.org to focus on that point)

John Zerzan:

Technology is the problem. Specialization of Labor is the
problem. Time, Numbers, Art, Ritual, are symptoms of the
problem. Domination / domestication of any kind is the
problem: human-human or human-non-human or human-animal. The
solution is to live as humans lived for millions of years.

====================

Both Jensen & Zerzan have called themselves anarchists.
Zerzan can be called an anarcho-primitivist. Both Jensen and
Quinn can be called animists.

_None of them are living as primitives_ Both Quinn and
Jensen say they are not suggesting that we return to
gatherer-hunting, but that we learn from the
gatherer-hunters. Zerzan says we should be gatherer-hunters.

---------

My personal feelings and my vision:

(1) I am interested in living as simply as possible,
allowing me to focus my attention on those things I most
value: a monkish, deliberate, focused existence.

(2) I am much more excited about working within the paradigm
of this Belize EV than entering an existing EV where they
may already be doing things like building buildings/ keeping
chickens. _No one_ that I am aware of is taking Raphael's
approach on such a large scale. This project is unique and
special-- though I have no doubt that throughout history
(and the present) there are similar endeavors.

    (a) I had thought about and practiced developing the
skill necessary to simply walk off into the wilderness /
homelessness before finding out about this project. ( See:
"Economad"
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.discuss.our-culture-capitol/23
) but doing this as part of a group would be much better --
this is a much better vision.

(3) In the long-run I may not wish to continue to be as
extreme as the Belize EV, but what I learn in this work will
help me with future projects.

(4) Things are getting nastier and nastier internationally /
environmentally / locally.

(5) We can show people a way out. If we can all cease
supporting the evilness, the evilness will cease. These
things need to happen (for simplicity I list extreme /
simplified possibilities):

    (a) People must not pay taxes to governments.

    (b) People must not use cars.

    (c) People must have way fewer children. (total human population must decrease)

(6) For these things to happen we need a powerfully
motivated and evangelistic movement to develop. Living
peacefully and sustainably in the forest won't matter much
in the long run if reproducing evangelistic car-drivers /
diamond wearers / etc., eventually decide to mine / pave our
land.

(7) We need to present an alternative that is visibly
better.

(8) We need to help others join us in that life-way (that
is: we cannot simply hole up and ignore the rest of the
world)


I think that sums up my angle.

To follow marcus's fan-fiction example, though (--not
really, but at least I'm being less abstract--):

Raw Food is awesome- I don't think I'll have a problem with
that (a fruitarian dietary focus has been one of my most
positive recent changes)- Though, possibly I will be eating
insects and available small meaty things, should I start to
feel I'm missing soomething.

It's going to be huge challenge living entirely
off/within/in participation with the forest--

I get a lot of meaning from my internet work (web
sites/research/ communication). I will not want to give that
up permanently/indefinitely- but for months at a time, quite
possibly I would be fine with that.


I am afraid (like Raphael / others) that 50 people on 166
acres may be too much.

I am afraid that others may not be as extreme as I am with
respect to fossil fuel freedom in transportation to/from the
ecovillage / outside world. Will everyone see the value as I
believe I will of always making the treck from the EV to the
nearest public transportation by foot / bicycle / other
non-motorized transport?


It's possible I won't like living totally primitive: maybe
there are horribly biting flies, maybe I'll have horrible
allergies-

Maybe we won't be able to pull this thing off- because some
amount of money will be needed to sustain us: property tax
at minimum, or other things.

etc.


All right! I'm running out of things to say. Eventually I
hope to come up with something more polished to post on
other lists-

Raphael:
What work can I do to help make this happen?
While I don't really look forward to returning to NYC- I do
look forward to meeting you and Alexandra, and getting a
better idea of who you are and how you work.
I have a cheap ride back down from NYC on May 8-
I can come up as much to a week before then to meet/ work
with you. I can bring a laptop & a hub- but would want to
borrow a monitor If I were to do extensive computer work.




Below is my journal / log since saturday morning.

Someday, I hope to pull something more coherent out of this.

For now, some big discoveries / questions (not already mentioned above) were:
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/wildup.html
(a primitive community in Wisconsin!-- not sure if it still exists.)

A powerful illustration of how communities stop controlling
their populations when resources can be bought with money:

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC31/NorbergH.htm
found from reading: http://www.eco-action.org/dt/ladakh.html

the planetary villager concept:
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC01/Gilman1.htm

You will notice my focus on the tree sits and also on
Corrie- killed by an Israeli bulldozer, and related NYC
protests. These people fascinate me- they are the heart of
our culture. The tree sitters are the kids dying because of
how messed up things are here (two committed suicide - if
you remember Quinn's mention of "Jeffery" (Paul Eppinger-
http://whitecloudpress.com/books/rstless.html) and Tribe of
Crow-- he's getting at something similar.


and I think we should ask:
(as Derrick Jensen asks) why aren't we blowing up dams?
Sitting in trees in the US? Stopping Buldozing of
Palestinian homes? Staying in the towns where we are and
fighting there?


To some extent- I'm like those kids- I'm like Paul Eppinger-
I've gotten to the point where there's nothing here for me-
I'm ready to die- (I've already died-- p371 Jensen _alotw_
"Zen Poet Bunan: Die while you're alive and be absolutely
dead - then do whatever you want. It's all good." this is
similar to the ideas in _Cultural Creatives_ or Ken Wilber's
/ many other developmental work: to grow you must die / a
part of you must die)

My plan was (see Economad- above) to just walk off and be
homeless- and wander- or maybe go sit in trees.

You will also note my notes on the dam project in Belize--
what fights will we have if our project is successful? What
is the gov't like there? Ecotourism requires technology-
airports? can we get everyone to sail/ take the train?-

And note the Bouganville fight-
http://www.eco-action.org/bougainville/

and read zerzan's _future primitive_


That's all-
I wanted to get this out, and to let you know, my interest
in this project has moved from reserved interest to interest
without reserve (almost - I don't know Raphael).

I can't quite dedicate myself completely yet- but I'm close-
I have work for carfreecity.us, carfreeuniverse.org, etc.

If the project falls through-
I have plenty to keep me busy-
and my plan B is to head south when it gets cold.


good night!
Colin
http://j9k.org


2003-04-26-1048
back,
did weights
reading zerzan


1326
http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Prim.htm
profoundest night of non-being


crimethinc's intro:
isolation- you think you've found access-
but.
http://www.crimethinc.com/introtext.html

This webpage is one of many manifestations of the underground network through which we work to realize these daydreams, to take the reigns of our lives and make our history rather than using the same energy to insist we are being made by it. If you have illicit ideas and intentions of your own to share, you're invited to join us here.

Now Entering Cyberia
(Population: Zero)
A Note on the Medium

Due to your vague interest in these matters which have been deemed antisocial by the new thought police, you have been exiled to Cyberia. You may believe your visit to be voluntary, but ask yourself: if you could live -- in real time, in full color, without a 'net' -- the revolt and transformation you fantasize about, would you be here, contemplating and trading in mere representations of such things? The new isolation chambers and interrogation rooms largely need no judicial procedures or law enforcement to fill them -- we confine ourselves to these office cubicles, internet cafes, and lonely bedrooms willingly, even believing ourselves to have found access to our dreams and desires here.

Not to criticize you, of course -- since obviously I am in the same situation as you, similarly self-exiled. But let's use this time in the wilderness as the political prisoners of old did: not to get accustomed to it, not to build new lives around this voluntary amputation, but to educate ourselves, increase our powers and connections, so when we can return to society we will be armed with new tools for dismantling and reconceiving it. Let us take the world itself back, rather than the "information superhighways" upon which we are being herded so quickly away from it, so one day there will be no need for anyone to return here besides misguided historians and other archeologists of the cursed graveyards of the past.

See you on the other side of the screen, if you make it, earnest cyberspace cadet.

-CrimethInc. Workers' Collective.



http://pub5.ezboard.com/ftheanarchyboardprimitivism.showMessage?topicID=158.topic

http://noleaders.net/anok/reports/notprimitive/

1515
http://sacredlands.org/enemyofthestate_zerzan.htm

1603
http://reason.com/0107/fe.rb.rage.shtml

1619
http://www.zmag.org/zerzan.htm

1626
http://www.primitivism.com/what-is-primitivism.htm

1629
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/primer.html


1812 talking w peter.

1826
late intro of hunting
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/futureprim.html

wild.

1924

1951
on population growth.
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC31/NorbergH.htm
found from reading: http://www.eco-action.org/dt/ladakh.html

2007
planetary villager
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC01/Gilman1.htm

2028
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC20/Parry.htm
Robert: It strikes me that the old definition of the warrior is someone who is unswervingly loyal to an answer of some sort - country, creed or whatever - and who is willing to persevere and fight to the death without moving away from that answer. The warrior always knew who the good guys and bad guys were in a situation, and part of the core training of the warrior was to be completely, reliably inflexible on these issues. But the definition you use involves knowing that you don't have "the answer." What loyalties does the new warrior maintain?

Robert: It seems to me that a core part of this emerging vision of the warrior is that the warrior is someone who opens up the channels of communication.

Danaan: Yes, exactly.

Robert: The warrior goes into situations where communications are constricted, the system is inflamed or painful so to speak, and finds ways to nudge open the channel of communication and get it flowing again in a life-affirming way.

Now the older strategy for dealing with that inflamed situation is to try to cut off whatever is on the other side of that constriction: "If I can just destroy the thing that's on the other side of the barrier, there won't be any inflammation." So we need to shift away from dealing with that other by destroying it.

--- don't forget okanagan p 290 _listening to the land_

The new warrior is in a precarious position, because he or she says "I am going to show myself and the rest of my tribe that there is no real shit out there. That darkness exists within each one of us, and I will demand that we have the courage to look at it." So using the word "warrior" really has some meaning, because warriors have to have the courage to put up with some pretty heavy flak from their own people. We are asking our own people to grow and not to project.


2059
whole issue on population.
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC31/TOC31.htm

2108
what is belize's gov't like?

http://stopfortis.org/

2135
http://judibari.org/#Welcome

2150
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/critique.html

2219
awesome
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/wildup.html

2237
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html

2241
a bit more on population.
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/civics.html

2307
http://www.eces.org/blog/

2325
commondreams.org

0013
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

0025
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1299.shtml

0033

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1343.shtml

0059

http://www.tree-sit.org/

0102
 Come live in the trees with us! or send us financial support:
Cascadia Forest Defenders!
PO Box 11122, Eugene,
OR 97440
http://www.ecoecho.org/
541-484-2997

0105
two suicides-

0108
http://www.ecoecho.org/

0110
for soif http://collectif.valette.free.fr/

0122
http://www.blackmesais.org/


0205
http://www.eco-action.org/go/monkey.html


0213
http://ena.ecovillage.org/English/News/eNews/index.html


0311
http://pub5.ezboard.com/ftheanarchyboardprimitivism

0330
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

2003-04-27-1146
9. Speak only if you can improve upon the silence
http://www.geocities.com/siniquitous/Wyrge.html

1155
remember gandhian approach to concentration camp,
and no crime in inaction.

1158
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth-Quake/message/2
Im a great advocate of Epicurian thought, that the most important things
that each individual needs to make them happy is Friends, Freedom and
Reflection. When these things are in place even technology becomes
irrelevent, yet technology can also be of great benefit for the quest for
such things.

1201
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth-Quake/message/3
Nothing truly exists but the 'self', as everything is only perceived via
the self and we all try to make our world safe by manifesting our
'self/selfishness' around us, so we can feel more comfortable in the chaos of
existence. So if we feel comfortable with peace, we become pacifists, if we
feel comfortable with money, we become capitalists, if we feel comfortable
with wotever, that is what we will fight for to create that comfortableness
around us. None of it is 'good/right' and none of it is 'bad/evil', all just
a difference of opinion, but we will gather with others of a similar view,
however informed or ignorant we perceive that to be.


...

 I no longer believe that there will ever be a world Utopia, or that there
ever has ever been [the reason for those Golden Age stories]. I do believe we
can and have improved our lot on this planet and can continue the work
further. But there will always be pain to counter balance happiness, always
cold and hot, death and life, poverty and wealth, indulgence and slavery,
agreement and disagrement, though perhaps not as in past historical extremes,
but they will always exist.

1256
http://sacredlands.org/enemyofthestate_zerzan.htm
Not only do we have to remember or relearn how
     to live sustainably, but we have to figure out how to deal with those forces
     that right now are destroying all those who do live sustainably

1305
 I recently saw a quote by Exene Cervenka, the lead singer in the band X, in
     which she said, "I've killed way more people than Kaczynski, because I've
     been paying a lot of taxes in the last fifteen years, and he hasn't." I was
     really struck by what an effective point that is. It reminds us we're all
     implicated.

1308
 I have no idea. It might be something as simple as everybody just staying
     home from work. Fuck it. Withdraw your energy. The system can't last without
     us. It needs to suck our energy. If people stop responding to the system,
     it's doomed.

1310
The dogs in Pavlov's laboratory had been conditioned for
     hundreds of hours. They were fully trained and domesticated. Then there was
     a flood in the basement. And you know what happened? They forgot all of
     their training in the blink of an eye.


1311
done- I think- reading anarchist stuff-
huge questions remain.


1340
http://www.starhawk.org/writings/truthexcerpt.html

1711
went to forest, sat & danced on log- went barefoot

thought of vision, plan, future

seems this is it.





=================================
Some other authors Raphael mentioned in a chat two fridays
ago:

05:52:22pm Raphael> Get Jim Mason's An Unnatural Order from
Continuum publishing, it really takes the anti-civilization
motif from the veg perspective.

05:52:30pm Raphael> Savages, by Joe Kane

05:52:53pm Raphael> The Human Zoo, by Desmond Morris, and
less so, The Naked Ape by the same author.

================================
A link to an existing, no dreaming necessary, Belize EV,
with flies:
http://www.angelfire.com/ns/thegardenbelize/


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