Re: One and Zero

On Wed, May 02, 2007, Uri Even-Chen wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] One and Zero":
> > I find this nonsense. Why is, for example, "pornography", a useless label,
> > indicating disapproval and nothing more? Pornography has a very real meaning,
> > which is depictions of sexual situations, through pictures, film, and so on.
> > People who like to watch pornography also call it that (or more usually
> > in the US, "porn"). Most content can easily be classified by everyone as
> > being "porn" or "non-porn" (except, of course, some border cases), and this
> > doesn't mean that you need to disapprove of porn. Any more than anyone can
> > classify a movie as being a "cartoon" or not a cartoon, and it doesn't mean
> > you disapprove of cartoons.
> 
> Not everyone defines pornography the same way.  What some people might
> view as art, others view as pornography.  For example, naked people in
> pictures, movies, theater or in paintings.  I don't think everyone
> agrees whether it is or is not pornography.  Is a movie that contains
> naked people, or half naked people (topless) a pornographic movie?  Is
> a movie that contains sex between men and women, or men and men, or
> women and women, a pornographic movie?  I think it depends whom you're
> asking.

This is why I gave the cartoon example. Everyone how to define a 100%
cartoon is (e.g., Disney's "Bambi") and a 100% non-cartoon (e.g, the movie
"Home Alone"). But what about a movie which is part-cartoon, part-non-
cartoon, say, "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"? What about a movie 99% non-cartoon
but with a 1 minute cartoon segment in it? Does it really matter if we
can't rigidly call such movies "cartoon" or "non-cartoon"? Does it detract
from the validity of using these labels?

Similarly, a movie can be 99% family movie, and 1% nude scenes. It's not
100% non-porn, it's not 100% porn - it's something in between. Those who
for some reason *oppose* porn will not watch such a movie, because they
don't want to see even one second of porn. Those who *love* porn will not
watch such a movie, because it has too much family stuff and too little of
the "good stuff". Again, the fact that for this specific movie is part
porn, part non-porn, doesn't mean that porn cannot be defined.

> And also, pornography depends on geography.  Pornography in
> Iran is not necessarily the same as pornography in France (just an
> example).

You're right that some people define porn different than others. For some,
porn includes topless women, or even woman without long sleeves. For others,
porn has to include completely naked individuals, and sex scenes. But again,
so what? The definition of cartoon is similar. Bambi is obviously a cartoon,
but is "Toy Story" (a computer generated movie) called a cartoon? Is a movie
made from filming play-dough (plastelina) figures, "a cartoon"? The fact
that we can argue about the definition, doesn't mean we can't make one.


-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |     Thursday, May  3 2007, 15 Iyyar 5767
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