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Dr. Joe,
=20
When your order an F series from Homeodel or other supplier, what potencies=
do they provide? (not shown on websites)
=20
Do you get the same set of potencies from any supplier?
=20
Meaning, have you instructed pharmacies that an F series must consist of th=
ese potencies? Or what is in a FULL set?
3C, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, ... ??
=20
LM is considered "weak" when compared on a mathematical scale to C since th=
ey only span 5C to 73C but their action is much stronger/deeper than their =
math equivalent C's because the dilution is 1:50,000 vs 1:100 which acts di=
fferently, supposedly gentler and deeper than if taking as their C equivale=
nts.
=20
Using this table, from Will Taylor's WHN dosing and potency course, differs=
from yours, as recently posted by Kari Kindem on SN:
=20
LM1 =E2=80=93 5C
LM2 =E2=80=93 8C
LM3 =E2=80=93 10C
LM4 =E2=80=93 12C
LM5 =E2=80=93 15C
LM6 =E2=80=93 18C
=E2=80=A6
LM12 =E2=80=93 31C
=E2=80=A6
LM30 =E2=80=93 73C
=20
Varun had commented on this:
Dilutional equivalent doesn't tell the potency, as the "absorption coeffic=
ient of alcohol" is not taken into account in this... Alcohol is expected t=
o absorb more power on more dilution (including succession), and that's wha=
t happens in LM scale... So, each LM absorbs far more power than what happe=
ns in each C scale dilution, coz of more dilution ratio... The difference i=
s quite a lot, 1 : 100, and 1 : 50,000... That's why LM potencies are scare=
d too, even otherwise in general, and considered more strong... Now you can=
say LM potencies rather act more gently... Then that's also true, and I wo=
n't like to go into the details of why both the aspects hold, (provided use=
d rightly)...
And you are assuming that, "Each LM potency goes up by around 2C - per eac=
h LM level increasing." Let me know your mathematics behind this. Quite dif=
ficult to even expect or assume this, as the difference in dilution is 1 : =
100 to 1 : 50,000.
=20
Irene De Villiers wrote in 2011:
=20
"That said one could in theory use LMs in F series - or any chosen=20
potency in F series....it is the F series that matters, not the X, C,=20
LM, etc aspect.
But the C potencies in series are the ones most studied and proved."
=20
http://www.otherhealth.com/homeopathy-list-discussion/11481-lms.html
=20
=20
Dr.Joe wrote:=20=20
=20
"So how do you plan to do that? LM1, LM3, LM5, LM8, etc,...? it is of=20
course possible but then you miss out on the intermediate LM potencies=20
that are prepared differently than the C or X potencies and on the slow,=20
constant progression and exponential multiplication of the C potencies=20
given in an F series."
=20
I would start LM3 then go LM5 which based on Fibonacci, should then act lik=
e an LM15 (?)
Here at first I'm only skipping LM4, which should be tolerable, and I would=
know fairly quickly if that works.
=20
Not clear on why you feel missing out on intermediate LM potencies and thei=
r different preparation would matter in Fibonacci theory?
Possibly, I'll miss out on the gentler action by skipping a gradual progres=
sion of LMs
=20
You're comparing mathematical equivalency between LM and C, by showing what=
an LM equates to as a C and then what the resulting extrapolation in C pot=
ency theoretical action is when taken as Fibonacci.=20=20
=20
But LM action is different because the dilutions are different (1:100 C, 1:=
50000 LM)
=20
Without Fibonacci, LMs taken in sequential order from LM1 to LM30 have much=
stronger/deeper/gentler action than if taken as their C equivalents from 5=
C to 73C.=20=20
So why compare LM to C if taken in F series??=20=20=20
They already don't compare in action when not taken as Fibonacci.
=20
For example, taken as F series: LM3, LM5 (should act as LM15), LM8 (should=
act like LM120)
When equating to C, LM3=3D10C, LM5=3D15C which are not Fibonacci and the=
action shouldn't extrapolate as Fibonacci C's do.
So taking LM as F series shouldn't work if it your theory depends on it's C=
equivalency for it to work
=20
Then again, doesn't seem likely you would only need LM3, 5 and 8 to reach L=
M120 by Fibonacci, which would be considered quite high in action.
=20
I don't know if by taking an LM in F series I'm defeating the inherent natu=
re of LMs, mainly best for daily administration necessary for long term man=
agement of chronic diseases which besides being miasmatic are genetic in th=
emselves.=20
=20
Most of the cases discussed using F series have seemed to resolve themselve=
s after series use and you once mentioned mostly having non-miasmatic cases=
of your ~ 1000 cases.
=20
I don't expect final resolution or "cure" just hoping to speed up whatever =
help I'm receiving from the new antipsoric remedy.
=20
Having moved upto LM25 on my constitutional/core antipsoric remedy and LM13=
on an antimiasmatic nosode, maybe I can bypass having to do a monthly LM p=
rogression with a new remedy I've only taken as 200C, 2 pills, 25 water dos=
es.
=20
Since it takes over a week to receive from Helios or Homeodel, .
I'll order LM3, 5 and to play it safe LM6, 7, 8.
If I run into problems skipping LM4 after starting LM5, I'll continue on LM=
6 in non F series mode
I don't think it will be too detrimental to skip LM4 for a test. ;)
=20
Susan=20
=20=20=20
=20=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. J Rozencwajg, NMD <[email protected]>
To: healthyinfo6 <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 13, 2014 10:31 pm
Subject: Re: [H] LM taken in F Series
LM/Q are linear potencies.
LM1 is the equivalent of a 5C with a constant multiplicator of 2 (the=20
maths are in "The Potency", page 152 and 153)
LM2 =3D 2*6C
.
.
.
LM10 =3D 2*14C
LM20 =3D 2*24C, etc.....
So how do you plan to do that? LM1, LM3, LM5, LM8, etc,...? it is of=20
course possible but then you miss out on the intermediate LM potencies=20
that are prepared differently than the C or X potencies and on the slow,=20
constant progression and exponential multiplication of the C potencies=20
given in an F series.
I am not saying it would not work, I have no idea and would welcome any=20
trial of combining both systems. It might give yet another avenue of=20
prescribing.....practitioners need to try...
Who has published cases that do not need to go past 55C????? the whole=20
point of doing the FULL series is to NOT miss any potential action of=20
extremely (admittedly calculated) potencies.
My own experience has been that if I stop somewhere in the middle, I=20
have eventually to complete the series to get rid of residual complaints=20
still covered by the same remedy, as described in the book.
But if it appeals to anybody, who prevents you to try, have a few=20
hundred cases and publish the results.
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
On 14/07/2014 1:27 p.m., [email protected] wrote:
> Is there any logical reason LMs can not gain the amplification benefit wh=
en=20
taken in F series?
>
> They're already immediately available for order at least upto LM34 at He=
lios=20
for many remedies, upto LM100 for others
>
> 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233
>
> 3 =3D 3
> 5 is 3=C3=975 =3D 15 equivalent
> 8 is 15=C3=978 =3D 120 equivalent
> 13 is 120=C3=9713 =3D 1560 equivalent
> 21 is 1560=C3=9721 =3D 32760 equivalent
> 34 is 32760x 34 =3D 1113840 equivalent
> 55 is 1113840x 55 =3D 61216200 equivalent
>
> The Fibonacci sequence is independent whether it's X, C or LM.
>
> The few cases I've read haven't needed to go past 55C
>
> I've finished a new 200C in 25 water doses over a month.
>
> Generally I'd move from 200C to LM4 and progress as usual but feel like=20
experimenting and start from LM3 or LM5 and go F
>
> Right now I'll bide time with a 201C
>
> Surely would save a-lot of $$$!
>
> Susan
> _______________________________________________
> Homeopathy Mailing List
> [email protected]
> http://lists.homeolist.com/mailman/listinfo/homeopathy
=20
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<div><font style=3D"background-color: transparent;">Dr. Joe,</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"background-color: transparent;"></font> </div>
<div><font style=3D"background-color: transparent;">When your order an F se=
ries from Homeodel or other supplier, what potencies do they prov=
ide? (not shown on websites)</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Do you get the same set of potencies from any supplier?=
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Meaning, have you instructed pharmacies that an F series must consist =
of these potencies? Or what is in a FULL set?</div>
<div>3C, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, ... ??</div>
<div> </div>
<div>LM is considered "weak" when compared on a mathematical scale to C sin=
ce they only span 5C to 73C but their action is much stronger/deeper than t=
heir math equivalent C's because the dilution is 1:50,000 vs 1:100 whi=
ch acts differently, supposedly gentler and deeper than if taking as their =
C equivalents.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Using this table, from Will Taylor's WHN dosing and potency course, di=
ffers from yours, as recently posted by Kari Kindem on SN:<=
/div>
<div> </div>
<div>LM1 =E2=80=93 5C<br>
LM2 =E2=80=93 8C<br>
LM3 =E2=80=93 10C<br>
LM4 =E2=80=93 12C<br>
LM5 =E2=80=93 15C<br>
LM6 =E2=80=93 18C<br>
=E2=80=A6<br>
LM12 =E2=80=93 31C<br>
=E2=80=A6<br>
LM30 =E2=80=93 73C</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Varun had commented on this:</div>
<div><br>
<em> <strong>Dilutional equivalent doesn't tell the potency,</strong> =
as the "absorption coefficient of alcohol" is not taken into account in thi=
s... Alcohol is expected to absorb more power on more dilution (including s=
uccession), and that's what happens in LM scale... So, each LM absorbs far =
more power than what happens in each C scale dilution, coz of more dilution=
ratio... The difference is quite a lot, 1 : 100, and 1 : 50,000... That's =
why LM potencies are scared too, even otherwise in general, and considered =
more strong... Now you can say LM potencies rather act more gently... Then =
that's also true, and I won't like to go into the details of why both the a=
spects hold, (provided used rightly)...<br>
<br>
And you are assuming that, "Each LM potency goes up by around 2C - per eac=
h LM level increasing." Let me know your mathematics behind this. Quite dif=
ficult to even expect or assume this, as the difference in dilution is 1 : =
100 to 1 : 50,000.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div>Irene De Villiers wrote in 2011:</div>
<div> </div>
<div><em>"That said one could in theory use LMs in F series - or any chosen=
<br>
potency in=20
F series....it is the F series that matters, not the X, C, <br>
LM, etc=20
aspect.<br>
But the C potencies in series are the ones most studied and=20
proved."</em></div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.otherhealth.com/homeopathy-list-discussion/11481=
-lms.html">http://www.otherhealth.com/homeopathy-list-discussion/11481-lms.=
html</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Dr.Joe wrote: </div>
<div> </div>
<div><em>"So how do you plan to do that? LM1, LM3, LM5, LM8, etc,...? it is=
of <br>
course possible but then you miss out on the intermediate LM potencies <br>
that are prepared differently than the C or X potencies and on the slow, <b=
r>
constant progression and exponential multiplication of the C potencies <br>
given in an F series."</em></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I would start LM3 then go LM5 which based on Fibonacci, should then ac=
t like an LM15 (?)</div>
<div>Here at first I'm only skipping LM4, which should be tolerable, a=
nd I would know fairly quickly if that works.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Not clear on why you feel missing out on intermediate LM potencies and=
their different preparation would matter in Fibonacci theory?</div>
<div>Possibly, I'll miss out on the gentler action by skipping a gradu=
al progression of LMs</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You're comparing mathematical equivalency between LM and C, by showing=
what an LM equates to as a C and then what the resulting extrapolation in =
C potency theoretical action is when taken as Fibonacci. &nb=
sp;</div>
<div> </div>
<div>But LM action is different because the dilutions are different (1=
:100 C, 1: 50000 LM)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Without Fibonacci, LMs taken in sequential order from LM1 to LM30 =
;have much stronger/deeper/gentler action than if taken as their C equ=
ivalents from 5C to 73C. </div>
<div>So why compare LM to C if taken in F series?? </=
div>
<div>They already don't compare in action when not taken as Fibonacci.</div=
>
<div> </div>
<div>For example, taken as F series: LM3, LM5 (should act as LM15), L=
M8 (should act like LM120)</div>
<div> When equating to C, LM3=3D10C, LM5=3D15C which are not Fi=
bonacci and the action shouldn't extrapolate as Fibonacci C's do.</div=
>
<div>So taking LM as F series shouldn't work if it your theory depends on i=
t's C equivalency for it to work</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Then again, doesn't seem likely you would only need LM3, 5 a=
nd 8 to reach LM120 by Fibonacci, which would be considered quite high in a=
ction.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't know if by taking an LM in F series I'm defeating th=
e inherent nature of LMs, mainly best for daily administration necessa=
ry for long term management of chronic diseases which besides being miasmat=
ic are genetic in themselves. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Most of the cases discussed using F series have seemed to resolve them=
selves after series use and you once mentioned mostly having non-miasmatic =
cases of your ~ 1000 cases.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't expect final resolution or "cure" just hoping to spe=
ed up whatever help I'm receiving from the new antipsoric remedy.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Having moved upto LM25 on my constitutional/core antipsoric remed=
y and LM13 on an antimiasmatic nosode, maybe I can bypass having to do =
;a monthly LM progression with a new remedy I've only taken =
as 200C, 2 pills, 25 water doses.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Since it takes over a week to receive from Helios or Homeodel, .<=
/div>
<div>I'll order LM3, 5 and to play it safe LM6, 7, 8.</div>
<div>If I run into problems skipping LM4 after starting LM5, I'll cont=
inue on LM 6 in non F series mode</div>
<div>I don't think it will be too detrimental to skip LM4 for a test. ;)</d=
iv>
<div> </div>
<div>Susan </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> -----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dr. J Rozencwajg, NMD <[email protected]><br>
To: healthyinfo6 <[email protected]><br>
Sent: Sun, Jul 13, 2014 10:31 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [H] LM taken in F Series<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: black;font-family: arial,helvetica;font-size: 10pt;">
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_0_221cdbae-c983-46e1-bbe3-131401e63ccb" style=3D"marg=
in: 0px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif=
;font-size: 12px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>LM/Q are linear potencies.
LM1 is the equivalent of a 5C with a constant multiplicator of 2 (the=20
maths are in "The Potency", page 152 and 153)
LM2 =3D 2*6C
.
.
.
LM10 =3D 2*14C
LM20 =3D 2*24C, etc.....
So how do you plan to do that? LM1, LM3, LM5, LM8, etc,...? it is of=20
course possible but then you miss out on the intermediate LM potencies=20
that are prepared differently than the C or X potencies and on the slow,=20
constant progression and exponential multiplication of the C potencies=20
given in an F series.
I am not saying it would not work, I have no idea and would welcome any=20
trial of combining both systems. It might give yet another avenue of=20
prescribing.....practitioners need to try...
Who has published cases that do not need to go past 55C????? the whole=20
point of doing the FULL series is to NOT miss any potential action of=20
extremely (admittedly calculated) potencies.
My own experience has been that if I stop somewhere in the middle, I=20
have eventually to complete the series to get rid of residual complaints=20
still covered by the same remedy, as described in the book.
But if it appeals to anybody, who prevents you to try, have a few=20
hundred cases and publish the results.
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
<a href=3D"http://www.naturamedica.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">www.naturamedic=
a.co.nz</a>
On 14/07/2014 1:27 p.m., <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">healthyinf=
[email protected]</a> wrote:
> Is there any logical reason LMs can not gain the amplification benefit=
when=20
taken in F series?
>
> They're already immediately available for order at least upto LM34 at=
Helios=20
for many remedies, upto LM100 for others
>
> 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233
>
> 3 =3D 3
> 5 is 3=C3=975 =3D 15 equivalent
> 8 is 15=C3=978 =3D 120 equivalent
> 13 is 120=C3=9713 =3D 1560 equivalent
> 21 is 1560=C3=9721 =3D 32760 equivalent
> 34 is 32760x 34 =3D 1113840 equivalent
> 55 is 1113840x 55 =3D 61216200 equivalent
>
> The Fibonacci sequence is independent whether it's X, C or LM.
>
> The few cases I've read haven't needed to go past 55C
>
> I've finished a new 200C in 25 water doses over a month.
>
> Generally I'd move from 200C to LM4 and progress as usual but feel lik=
e=20
experimenting and start from LM3 or LM5 and go F
>
> Right now I'll bide time with a 201C
>
> Surely would save a-lot of $$$!
>
> Susan
> _______________________________________________
> Homeopathy Mailing List
> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</=
a>
> <a href=3D"http://lists.homeolist.com/mailman/listinfo/homeopathy" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://lists.homeolist.com/mailman/listinfo/homeopathy</a>
</tt></pre>
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