Re: capacity v bandwidth

thanks Brian - Judy Estrin used the term "brouter" for products from Bridge
Communications.

v


On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:42 PM Brian E Carpenter <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Vint, I'm sure you're correct, but again quoting the same 1988 DDN
> document:
>
> "3.8.2. cisco Systems Gateways -
> PRODUCT-OR-PACKAGE-NAME: cisco Multi-Protocol Gateway Servers
> DESCRIPTION:
> The cisco family of gateways are multi-protocol routers linking networks
> of heterogeneous hosts and -
> media. All Gateway Servers are fully compliant with RFC 1009,
> "Requirements for Internet Gateways"."
>
> so clearly even Cisco was using both words.
>
> RFC 1009 (June 1987) uses "gateway" 154 times and "router" 16 times.
> It explicitly defines the terms about 180 degrees differently than Noel:
>
> "     Router      A router is a switch that receives data transmission
>                    units from input interfaces and, depending on the
>                    addresses in those units, routes them to the
>                    appropriate output interfaces.  There can be routers
>                    at different levels of protocol.  For example,
>                    Interface Message Processors (IMPs) are packet-level
>                    routers.
>
>        Gateway     In the Internet documentation generally, and in this
>                    document specifically, a gateway is an IP-level
>                    router.  In the Internet community the term has a long
>                    history of this usage [32]."
>
> Regards/Ngā mihi
>     Brian
> On 02-Jun-26 13:32, vinton cerf wrote:
> > I had always thought that cisco introduced the term 'router" in 1984.
> >
> > v
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:52 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> wrote:
> >
> >     This is slightly complicated by the IGP/EGP terminology. That
> persisted even when
> >     "router" became commonplace. I think we can date it to between June
> 1988
> >     and June 1989:
> >
> >     RFC1058 (RIP, June 1988) uses "gateway" exclusively
> >
> >     RFC1105 (the first version of BGP, June 1989) uses "router"
> exclusively,
> >     except in the name of the protocol!
> >
> >     Wikipedia says that the p4200 came out in 1986. I couldn't find a
> manual,
> >     but its product name was in a May 1988 DoD report:
> >
> >     "Proteon p4200 Gateway
> >     ...
> >     The p4200 gateway is a multiprotocol router, supporting (among other
> protocols) TCP/IP."
> >
> >     [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf <
> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf>]
> >
> >     Also see: RFC1208 "A Glossary of Networking Terms" (March 1991)
> >
> >     Regards/Ngā mihi
> >          Brian
> >
> >     On 02-Jun-26 11:48, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
> >      >      > From: Jack Haverty
> >      >
> >      >      > In the early Internet, the boxes interconnecting networks
> were called
> >      >      > "gateways". Today they're called "routers".  But why the
> change...?
> >      >      >
> >      >      > So we started callig them "routers". Other companies
> (cisco, proteon,
> >      >      > ...) probably had similar experiences in their sales
> activities.
> >      >
> >      > If my memory isn't failing me (it well might be), I can take part
> of the
> >      > blame.
> >      >
> >      > I do remember that I was pissed off because everyone and their
> brother
> >      > (across the industry generally) called any box that did digital
> >      > communications between two things a 'gateway'. E.g. a box that
> did email
> >      > forwarding from BITNET to the Internet was called a 'gateway'.
> I.e. 'gateway'
> >      > was useless as a technical term, because it covered an impossibly
> wide range
> >      > of functionalities.
> >      >
> >      > (I am not sure if the p4200, the first Proteon router product,
> >      > post-dated the 'gateway' -> 'router' change; I'd have to try and
> find an
> >      > original manual. If it pre-dated, I may have taken Proteon
> experience into
> >      > account too.)
> >      >
> >      > So I campaigned (I think it was me) in the IETF community to come
> up with a
> >      > term limited to internetwork-level datagra packet switches, and
> 'router' was
> >      > picked.
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > I don't know if that change post-dated the creation of the IETF
> or not. I
> >      > remember such large-scale questions (i.e. not within the purview
> of a WG,
> >      > after Phill set up the WG structure) were often discussed on the
> main IETF
> >      > mailing list, so if we still have the email archive from the
> start of that
> >      > list, someone can dig into it.
> >      >
> >      > I remember that before the IETF existed, there was an email list
> (I think
> >      > hosted at CNRI maybe, although CNRI didn't exist until 1986 -
> Jon's minutes
> >      > of TCP/IP meetings stop at the end of 1980) where a lot of early
> TCP
> >      > internetworking discussions ('TCP internetworking' since there
> must have been
> >      > PUP internetworking discussions, too, inside Xerox) happened.
> Does anyone
> >      > remember what it was called?
> >      >
> >      > Any technical history of the creation of TCP internetting would
> _really_
> >      > benefit from having access to that email archive (if it still
> exists
> >      > somewhere; if not, maybe it would be possible to re-create it by
> picking
> >      > through preserved emailboxes; or perhaps someone who printed out
> all their
> >      > email still has those printouts).
> >      >
> >      > I feel sadly wary that a lot of our earliest history has been
> lost (since we
> >      > didn't use physical memos, which many technical histories depend
> on for 'nuts
> >      > and bolts' primary sources) - except for the copy stored in
> 'meat' CPUs (who
> >      > will soon start dying off - historians take note, and act now,
> while you can).
> >      >
> >      >       Noel
> >     --
> >     Internet-history mailing list
> >     [email protected] <mailto:
> [email protected]>
> >     https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history <
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
> >     -
> >     Unsubscribe:
> https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/9b6ef0621638436ab0a9b23cb0668b0b?The%20list%20to%20be%20unsubscribed%20from=Internet-history
> <
> https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/9b6ef0621638436ab0a9b23cb0668b0b?The%20list%20to%20be%20unsubscribed%20from=Internet-history
> >
> >
>
-- 
Internet-history mailing list
[email protected]
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
-
Unsubscribe: https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/9b6ef0621638436ab0a9b23cb0668b0b?The%20list%20to%20be%20unsubscribed%20from=Internet-history