Re: capacity v bandwidth

would the very first "gateway" perhaps be the Menehune application level
"gateway" between the ALOHANET that "became operational in June 1971,
providing the first public demonstration of a wireless packet data network"
connected to the ARPANET?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet

yours truly spent some summer "vacations" in Hawaii in the '70s and was
given use of an ALOHANET ICU to connect to a TI Silent 700 Thermal print
out terminal yours truly lugged over there and fondly recalls using the
HAWAII-ALOHA Menehune "gateway" to telnet connect back to SRI.  sadly yours
truly no longer has the photo's of all that.. :(

g

On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:25 PM vinton cerf via Internet-history <
[email protected]> wrote:

> thanks Brian - Judy Estrin used the term "brouter" for products from Bridge
> Communications.
>
> v
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:42 PM Brian E Carpenter <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Vint, I'm sure you're correct, but again quoting the same 1988 DDN
> > document:
> >
> > "3.8.2. cisco Systems Gateways -
> > PRODUCT-OR-PACKAGE-NAME: cisco Multi-Protocol Gateway Servers
> > DESCRIPTION:
> > The cisco family of gateways are multi-protocol routers linking networks
> > of heterogeneous hosts and -
> > media. All Gateway Servers are fully compliant with RFC 1009,
> > "Requirements for Internet Gateways"."
> >
> > so clearly even Cisco was using both words.
> >
> > RFC 1009 (June 1987) uses "gateway" 154 times and "router" 16 times.
> > It explicitly defines the terms about 180 degrees differently than Noel:
> >
> > "     Router      A router is a switch that receives data transmission
> >                    units from input interfaces and, depending on the
> >                    addresses in those units, routes them to the
> >                    appropriate output interfaces.  There can be routers
> >                    at different levels of protocol.  For example,
> >                    Interface Message Processors (IMPs) are packet-level
> >                    routers.
> >
> >        Gateway     In the Internet documentation generally, and in this
> >                    document specifically, a gateway is an IP-level
> >                    router.  In the Internet community the term has a long
> >                    history of this usage [32]."
> >
> > Regards/Ngā mihi
> >     Brian
> > On 02-Jun-26 13:32, vinton cerf wrote:
> > > I had always thought that cisco introduced the term 'router" in 1984.
> > >
> > > v
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:52 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> > [email protected] <mailto:
> [email protected]>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >     This is slightly complicated by the IGP/EGP terminology. That
> > persisted even when
> > >     "router" became commonplace. I think we can date it to between June
> > 1988
> > >     and June 1989:
> > >
> > >     RFC1058 (RIP, June 1988) uses "gateway" exclusively
> > >
> > >     RFC1105 (the first version of BGP, June 1989) uses "router"
> > exclusively,
> > >     except in the name of the protocol!
> > >
> > >     Wikipedia says that the p4200 came out in 1986. I couldn't find a
> > manual,
> > >     but its product name was in a May 1988 DoD report:
> > >
> > >     "Proteon p4200 Gateway
> > >     ...
> > >     The p4200 gateway is a multiprotocol router, supporting (among
> other
> > protocols) TCP/IP."
> > >
> > >     [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf <
> > https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf>]
> > >
> > >     Also see: RFC1208 "A Glossary of Networking Terms" (March 1991)
> > >
> > >     Regards/Ngā mihi
> > >          Brian
> > >
> > >     On 02-Jun-26 11:48, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
> > >      >      > From: Jack Haverty
> > >      >
> > >      >      > In the early Internet, the boxes interconnecting networks
> > were called
> > >      >      > "gateways". Today they're called "routers".  But why the
> > change...?
> > >      >      >
> > >      >      > So we started callig them "routers". Other companies
> > (cisco, proteon,
> > >      >      > ...) probably had similar experiences in their sales
> > activities.
> > >      >
> > >      > If my memory isn't failing me (it well might be), I can take
> part
> > of the
> > >      > blame.
> > >      >
> > >      > I do remember that I was pissed off because everyone and their
> > brother
> > >      > (across the industry generally) called any box that did digital
> > >      > communications between two things a 'gateway'. E.g. a box that
> > did email
> > >      > forwarding from BITNET to the Internet was called a 'gateway'.
> > I.e. 'gateway'
> > >      > was useless as a technical term, because it covered an
> impossibly
> > wide range
> > >      > of functionalities.
> > >      >
> > >      > (I am not sure if the p4200, the first Proteon router product,
> > >      > post-dated the 'gateway' -> 'router' change; I'd have to try and
> > find an
> > >      > original manual. If it pre-dated, I may have taken Proteon
> > experience into
> > >      > account too.)
> > >      >
> > >      > So I campaigned (I think it was me) in the IETF community to
> come
> > up with a
> > >      > term limited to internetwork-level datagra packet switches, and
> > 'router' was
> > >      > picked.
> > >      >
> > >      >
> > >      > I don't know if that change post-dated the creation of the IETF
> > or not. I
> > >      > remember such large-scale questions (i.e. not within the purview
> > of a WG,
> > >      > after Phill set up the WG structure) were often discussed on the
> > main IETF
> > >      > mailing list, so if we still have the email archive from the
> > start of that
> > >      > list, someone can dig into it.
> > >      >
> > >      > I remember that before the IETF existed, there was an email list
> > (I think
> > >      > hosted at CNRI maybe, although CNRI didn't exist until 1986 -
> > Jon's minutes
> > >      > of TCP/IP meetings stop at the end of 1980) where a lot of early
> > TCP
> > >      > internetworking discussions ('TCP internetworking' since there
> > must have been
> > >      > PUP internetworking discussions, too, inside Xerox) happened.
> > Does anyone
> > >      > remember what it was called?
> > >      >
> > >      > Any technical history of the creation of TCP internetting would
> > _really_
> > >      > benefit from having access to that email archive (if it still
> > exists
> > >      > somewhere; if not, maybe it would be possible to re-create it by
> > picking
> > >      > through preserved emailboxes; or perhaps someone who printed out
> > all their
> > >      > email still has those printouts).
> > >      >
> > >      > I feel sadly wary that a lot of our earliest history has been
> > lost (since we
> > >      > didn't use physical memos, which many technical histories depend
> > on for 'nuts
> > >      > and bolts' primary sources) - except for the copy stored in
> > 'meat' CPUs (who
> > >      > will soon start dying off - historians take note, and act now,
> > while you can).
> > >      >
> > >      >       Noel
> > >     --
> > >     Internet-history mailing list
> > >     [email protected] <mailto:
> > [email protected]>
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