RE: RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #362 - 8 msgs

Salaam,
I really dont like it when people take my words out of context.  To even 
compare men and women praying together with pornography and drug abuse is 
stupid and proves nothing at all.
If a man sees standing near a woman at the mosque as a test - then he is a 
man of weak iman.  It is only in segregated societies where this kind of 
innocent and insignificant event would mean anything at all.
For me, I would concentrate more in prayer if I knew I stood as an equal 
with my brothers before God.

On another topic, does anyone know of any women who dont wear hijab while 
praying?  what is the source of this anyway.  I can see a case from hadith 
for hijab all the time, but not much to justify hijab for prayer only.

Wa'salaam
Aisha

>From: "Yamin Bismilla" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 
>#362 - 8 msgs
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:03:41 -0500
>
>Slaams
>
>Why?  Why not?  Freedom!  Sure, lets give everyone all the choices and see
>what happens.  Lets serve liquor in schools.  They will make a choice to
>drink or not.  Lets have nude posters of Britney Spears and Vin Diesal
>dangling from every tower.  People will simply lower their gaze.  Legalize
>all drugs might be good too.  Obviously this is an exxageration ;)  But why
>not?  Give the people freedom!  It's all about balance and where to draw
>what line.  Or lets not draw any lines.  I think it would be interesting.
>Run for president.  I'll move to the States and vote for you.
>
>I'm not concerned about fitna, but I'm not going to ignore any side of the
>argument and just start leaping from extremities believing I have 
>eveyrthing
>figured out.  Seriosly though, I could care less if men and women pray
>together, but I'm sure some people have a problem with it. I'm not going to
>ignore their views.  I, unfortunately, am not divine, and I don't know 
>where
>all the boundries of the world lie.  That is for us to guess, and for God 
>to
>judge.  If you feel alone at the back of the mosque, I think you need to 
>get
>more women to the mosque; but I guess that mosque elite is quite powerful.
>
>There are always plenty of tests of life.  Perhaps our 15 minutes at the
>mosque should be a solemn time, free from 'these' tests so we can fully
>focus on prayer?  no?  We have the other 22+ hours or so to be bombarded
>with any barrage of tests.
>
>
>
> > Message: 1
> > From: "Kate Ahmad" <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE:
> > ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #360 - 3
> >  msgs
> > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:36:15 +1100
> > Reply-To: [email protected]
> >
> > Salaam,
> > I return your question back to you?  Why should men and women
> > not pray
> > together?
> > That is my point - freedom.  If you are so concerned about
> > fitna - then
> > remove yourself from the main body of people, but dont force
> > people to be
> > apart.  Part of the joy of group salat is standing next to
> > fellow muslims.
> > I know that I am often on my own down the back when I go to
> > the mosque for
> > Isha, and it is disheartening.  When I pray I dont think of
> > how good looking
> > the man next to me is - and no good muslim would - so let us control
> > ourselves rather than creating situations where we dont have
> > to.  If there
> > are no tests in life - then we can never improve as people.
> > And while overt
> > temptation is silly, there shouldn't be a problem with us
> > lowering our gaze
> > around fully clothed men and women in a mosque,
> >
> > Wa'salaam
> > Aisha
> >
> >
> > >From: "Yamin Bismilla" <[email protected]>
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims
> > digest, Vol 1
> > >#360 - 3 msgs
> > >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:07:21 -0500
> > >
> > >Slaams,
> > >
> > >Well while I'm sure some mosques have a 'elite' I think a
> > big part of islam
> > >is recognizing our faults.  Why should men and women pray
> > together?    Why
> > >not pray separately but equally?  Why would a woman feel
> > inferior praying
> > >alongside her fellow woman instead of with men?  Why
> > shouldn't women lead
> > >their own prayers with women as the prayer leaders?
> > >
> > >I'm sorry to say, but believing that you can totally remove
> > sexuality from
> > >any person(man or woman) is ridiculous.  No person can be without
> > >sexuality,
> > >just as people cannot be without some measure of happiness, honour,
> > >sadness...We all have wants and needs and recognizing that
> > is crucial for
> > >all.
> > >
> > >This is not to say anything of the hijab/burka/niqaab or any
> > such things,
> > >but I'm speaking specifically of the segregated mosque situation.
> > >
> > >Slaam,
> > >
> > >Yameen
> > >
> > >
> > > > Salaam,
> > > > I agree, and I also thought the letter was great.  Being in
> > > > australia I cant
> > > > offer my support in person, but I would like to in some
> > other form.
> > > > Do you think muslims over sexualise the female body, or
> > perhaps its
> > > > something else?  To me, it seems a lot about keeping
> > women in a less
> > > > powerful position than men.  Everything from hijab,
> > > > segragated mosques, the
> > > > lack of female imams etc - they all add up to make women
> > inferior and
> > > > submissive to the will of men.  The hijab, progressing to the
> > > > niqaab and
> > > > burqa really serves to depersonalise women - and women
> > can never be
> > > > prominent in society if they have no identity.  So - if you
> > > > cover your wife,
> > > > and make her stay at home, or in a back room at the mosque -
> > > > you can be sure
> > > > she will never have any influence on the outside world.
> > > > Thats why you see 2
> > > > year old girls in hijab - its not a sexual thing - its a
> > power thing.
> > > > The whole situation is ridiculous.......... why have muslims
> > > > come to this
> > > > point where most of our effort go into rabidly enforcing
> > > > rules to keep women
> > > > out of public life, in fear that they might incite the
> > > > dreaded fitna!!!?
> > > > Insha'allah women will one day pray with men, and maybe even
> > > > behind a female
> > > > imam one day - that would be fantastic!!!
> > > >
> > > > Wa'salaam
> > > > aisha
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list
> > >[email protected]
> > >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:06:35 -0500
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE:
> > ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol
> >  1 #360 - 3 msgs
> > Reply-To: [email protected]
> >
> > I think that anytime a man can't focus on his deen and needs
> > arbitrary
> > barriers to keep him from folding under "temptation" . . .
> > WHILE IN SALAAT
> > AT THE MASJID, he's seriously on the wrong track. that has nothing
> > whatsoever to do with the sister who might be standing next to him or
> > making salaat elsewhere in the space or away from it
> > (unfortunately for
> > some of our sisters).
> >
> > I never understood this concept in the religion and the more
> > and more I
> > think about it, it's because Allah's blessed me with a sense
> > of reason and
> > a a moral compass from birth. People have seriously corrupted
> > and twisted
> > the religion. In fact, I don't think this is a part of the
> > religion at all,
> > I think it's something people just came up with to serve their own
> > purposes. The Qur'an speaks of modesty and averting our gaze,
> > not banishing
> > behind screens and fold of fabric our sisters, mothers,
> > daughters, and
> > female companions and relations otherwise.
> >
> > The angels on our shoulder are making a note of our actions
> > whether they be
> > sincere salaat or disengenuous excuses for distractions.
> >
> > When will we wake up and realize that the distinctions we
> > make matter not
> > to allah and won't make a dime worth of difference during the
> > reckoning?
> >
> > Without a doubt, all who come in peace and sincerity should
> > and must be
> > allowed to pray together.
> >
> > Enough of this angry, incoherent rant,
> > moo  :(
> >
> >
> >
> > --On Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:36 PM +1100 Kate Ahmad
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Salaam,
> > > I return your question back to you?  Why should men and
> > women not pray
> > > together? That is my point - freedom.  If you are so concerned about
> > > fitna - then remove yourself from the main body of people,
> > but dont force
> > > people to be apart.  Part of the joy of group salat is
> > standing next to
> > > fellow muslims.  I know that I am often on my own down the
> > back when I go
> > > to the mosque for Isha, and it is disheartening.  When I pray I dont
> > > think of how good looking the man next to me is - and no good muslim
> > > would - so let us control ourselves rather than creating
> > situations where
> > > we dont have to.  If there are no tests in life - then we can never
> > > improve as people.  And while overt temptation is silly,
> > there shouldn't
> > > be a problem with us lowering our gaze around fully clothed
> > men and women
> > > in a mosque,
> > >
> > > Wa'salaam
> > > Aisha
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: "Yamin Bismilla" <[email protected]>
> > > > Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE:
> > ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol
> > > > 1
> > > ># 360 - 3 msgs
> > > > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:07:21 -0500
> > > >
> > > > Slaams,
> > > >
> > > > Well while I'm sure some mosques have a 'elite' I think a
> > big part of
> > > > islam is recognizing our faults.  Why should men and women pray
> > > > together?    Why not pray separately but equally?  Why
> > would a woman
> > > > feel inferior praying alongside her fellow woman instead
> > of with men?
> > > > Why shouldn't women lead their own prayers with women as
> > the prayer
> > > > leaders?
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry to say, but believing that you can totally
> > remove sexuality
> > > > from any person(man or woman) is ridiculous.  No person
> > can be without
> > > > sexuality,
> > > > just as people cannot be without some measure of
> > happiness, honour,
> > > > sadness...We all have wants and needs and recognizing
> > that is crucial
> > > > for all.
> > > >
> > > > This is not to say anything of the hijab/burka/niqaab or any such
> > > > things, but I'm speaking specifically of the segregated mosque
> > > > situation.
> > > >
> > > > Slaam,
> > > >
> > > > Yameen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Salaam,
> > > > > I agree, and I also thought the letter was great.  Being in
> > > > > australia I cant
> > > > > offer my support in person, but I would like to in some
> > other form.
> > > > > Do you think muslims over sexualise the female body, or
> > perhaps its
> > > > > something else?  To me, it seems a lot about keeping
> > women in a less
> > > > > powerful position than men.  Everything from hijab,
> > > > > segragated mosques, the
> > > > > lack of female imams etc - they all add up to make
> > women inferior and
> > > > > submissive to the will of men.  The hijab, progressing to the
> > > > > niqaab and
> > > > > burqa really serves to depersonalise women - and women
> > can never be
> > > > > prominent in society if they have no identity.  So - if you
> > > > > cover your wife,
> > > > > and make her stay at home, or in a back room at the mosque -
> > > > > you can be sure
> > > > > she will never have any influence on the outside world.
> > > > > Thats why you see 2
> > > > > year old girls in hijab - its not a sexual thing - its
> > a power thing.
> > > > > The whole situation is ridiculous.......... why have muslims
> > > > > come to this
> > > > > point where most of our effort go into rabidly enforcing
> > > > > rules to keep women
> > > > > out of public life, in fear that they might incite the
> > > > > dreaded fitna!!!?
> > > > > Insha'allah women will one day pray with men, and maybe even
> > > > > behind a female
> > > > > imam one day - that would be fantastic!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Wa'salaam
> > > > > aisha
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > ProgressiveMuslims mailing list
> > > > [email protected]
> > > >
> > http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
> > > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ProgressiveMuslims mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ProgressiveMuslims mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims

_________________________________________________________________
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