Re: RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #378 - 6 msgs

y2,

Since the ball's rolling on this thread, I'd like to add my 2 cents also.

While you may not have an opinion, your post as well as the time you must 
have put into it certainly communicate to me that you have strong feelings 
on this issue . . . I think that we have those two things (strong feelings 
as well as careful effort and consideration in our posts) in common.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to be reading your post as making 
depression a metaphor for homosexuality. I beg to differ with that 
parallel. I have to ask - given all of the scientific study that has gone 
into BOTH of these facets of the human condition in the last 100 years as 
well as the new critical light being shed on homosexuality within Islam in 
particular - where's the progress in the way we think about these issues?

I would assert that people in both camps would find fault in your 
comparison simply because there seems to be a value judgment in what you're 
saying that slights them both. It might be better if you're talking about 
them on the level of sin (which I do not agree is the case for either of 
these two states) to come from a place that is more scripturally-based. In 
effect, you might want to be more explicit and demonstrative in saying that 
it is Allah's judgment that people are under rather than your own or that 
of the prevailing Islamic social winds.

I don't want to play Qur'an Jeopardy on the issue so I won't ask you to 
site verses or site any myself. I will, however, celebrate your right to 
challenge me in understanding my faith as I would hope is true in the 
converse case. I will also bear witness to this thought you shared.

(About sex ads on the Al Fatiha group's listserv - I'm not sure if this was 
brought up before y2's post or if that post was when the issue arose but in 
my experience, they are highly atypical and get deleted from my inbox 
immediately like all related solicitations  . . . wherever they may come 
from.)

I just hope that the quest to please Allah justly and compassion while also 
experiencing peace by being in His* good graces (which brought me not only 
back to my faith but also to this group) is what attracts all who 
participate in the faith in the first place and is what attracts us to this 
group in particular. Given your recent post, y2, I am sure that reasonable 
people can disagree and I will also grant my agreement with with the loose 
definition/example you offered of 'open-minded[ness]' constituting the idea 
that homosexuality may be (just as it may not be) a sin is the eyes of 
Allah.

I pray that He* will guide us all rightly and forgive us when we err 
whether knowingly, in desperation, or in ignorance. And I hope that there 
is room in Islam and in groups like the PMN for people who think and 
believe like you do . . .and for those who do not.

Apologies in advance for any offenses/injury or ignorance on my end. Allah 
surely loves clarity so any thoughts that might contribute thereof are 
encouraged.

PS: * = Anyone know why Yusuf Ali and others seem to be sometimes 
translating Allah in the first-person pronoun as "We" as in plural rather 
than singular? What does that have to do with the third-person translating 
as the singular masculine "He"?

-Moo  :)



--On Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:28 PM -0500 y2 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> No doubt I'm sure some people are born with a tendancy to be attracted to
> the same sex.  Others simply make the choice.  People are born with
> tendacies all the time. That doesn't neccessarily mean they should simply
> embrace it.  I'm sure there are people who have a tendancy to be genuinly
> depressed simply due to a genetic disorder (they cannot product the happy
> chemicals in the brain).  Others are depressed for reasons of their
> own/environment's making.  In either case, one should seek treatment for
> that.  The notion that just because we are born with it or that it is
> found in nature is reason enough to accept it is not sufficient to allow
> it.  Male lions for example kill the offspring of other males when they
> take over a pride.  This of course would be a crime of immeasurable
> proportion in humanity.  But it is perfectly natural.