Re: HIV/AIDS, casual sex, committed relationships etc.

Salaams  Sr. Itrath,
 It seems to me that there as many men in this world who can say that the women they chose have also failed miserably in the standards set for them or even as women who have failed themsleves by not living up to their own values and beliefs. Sexuality is a human impulse shared both by males and females alike, and matters of the heart or reason of passion or of love , and committment are affected in so many various ways that  once again generalizations cannot be made. 
 I am willing to admit to anyone I have failed miserable at points in my life in relationships.Male and female... We are delicate , beautiful , creatures , of this glorious creation , fragile and  weak. ALL of us. Our jihad is to overcome these things and still appreciate them as qualities of human-ness and as gifts and to seek understanding and forgiveness and  a deeper sense of our dependence on Allah( saw) and his message and teachings to us.
 Just because the patriarchal dominat theology is to state that women's sexuality by nature is to be controlled is so often abused and distorted and used against women it does not mean that we as women do not, or cannot or will not  create our own disasters based on our sexuality, confusions and fears etc. For every lousy man there is probabaly and equal number of lousy women , who fail their  own and other's expectations. It is disatrous to all when love and trust and committment are destroyed by either of the sexes. Often we do the same to each other. It is indeeed sad, painful and heartbreaking for all.
 
Allah Kahleeki ,
rima
 


itrath <[email protected]> wrote:

salaam,

yes, its hard sometimes not to feel that the purpose is regulating the
sexuality of women but not men. most of us believe now that monogomy is
the only acceptable thing for men as well. beyond the strictly legal
issues, i think this is also about what kind of men women chose to be with
and what standards we hold men to. women who believe in monogomy and
chastity should demand that of men as well. i dont mean this just as an
individualistic thing but as a larger social expectation.

however, it often happens that whatever standards you choose to have for the
men in your life, they fail miserably. :-)

masalaama,

itrath



on 3/13/04 5:12 AM, Saadia Yacoob at [email protected] wrote:

> Salaams to everyone,
> 
> I haven't written anything to the list in a long time now, but I find
> this discussion on polygyny and slavery etc very interesting, seeing that
> I am the child of a polygynous marriage. I agree very much with what has
> been said so far, but I wanted to bring attention to something that I
> think has been missed in this conversation. When we talk of casual sex,
> sex with slaves, and multiple mates etc, the conversation is relevant
> only to men. Women are allowed only to be with one mate at a time,
> within the confines of marriage. I'm sure most people are aware of this
> fact as we have this conversation, but I wanted to say it out loud,
> because I think it is important to remember that this question of
> monogamy within Islam is only a question for men, because (theologically)
> for women, monogamy is the only option.
> 
> Saadia
> 
> 
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:18:28 +0530, "Kabir Bavikatte"
> said:
>> This message only has an HTML part -- this is a text generated
>> representation
>> 
>> 
>> Salaams,
>> 
>> We at the Center for Progressive Islam in Cape Town have been working
>> on a booklet for Muslim activists working on the issue of HIV/AIDS.
>> The booklet seeks to provide theological resources to activists
>> working in the Muslim community having to deal with discrimination and
>> prejudice. The dominant narrative of the religious elite is that
>> hiv/aids is Allah's punishment to the "fornicators" and "homosexuals".
>> Anyway we have tried to shift the focus from an obsession with
>> individual moral judgement to analysing the structural causes of
>> HIV/AIDS and thereby linking our response as Muslims to fighting these
>> structures of oppression. This within the South African context is
>> neoliberalism, racism, sexism and homophobia.
>> 
>> Now all this hasn't been too hard. The problem comes when one speaks
>> of responsibiliy, i.e agency. Our position has been that high risk
>> behaviour has little to do with choice and much to do with living
>> conditions such as poverty, patriarchy and therefore our responses as
>> Muslims have to be to fight these structures. Here is the
>> catch however. Programmatically one has to prescribe a plan of action
>> which includes both individual lifestyle choices and larger struggles.
>> So as far as larger struggles are concerned we can both Qur'anically
>> and relying on the Prophetic model argue for a liberation politics.
>> Individual lifestyle is a more complicated terrain. We have begun to
>> argue for sanctity of sex within marraige and against casual
>> sex. Arguments against casual sex is justified both Quranically and
>> structurally in terms of fighting commodification. Materially the
>> argument is also about the devastating impact casual sex has had
>> amongst the poor especially when it is set in the context of unequal
>> gender relations- i.e teenage pregnancies, abuse etc. This said we
>> don't want to foreclose the argument and thereby deny the existence of
>> other committed relationships outside the framework of the Islamic
>> marriage.
>> 
>> This is important because for the religious elite the bogey man here
>> is the homosexual who is the cause of the pandemic. We feel the need
>> to create space in our arguments for committed same sex relationships
>> especially because of the high levels of prejudice that is faced by
>> the queer community. Also pragamtically speaking within the first few
>> minutes of any workshop on HIV/AIDS within the Muslim community the
>> issue of the "homosexuals are responsible" is invariably thrown up.
>> The activist needs to address it without sidestepping the issue simply
>> because really the highest levels of discrimination are faced
>> primarily by the queer community.
>> 
>> I was hoping for some responses from the list. Specifically about the
>> notion of marriage, committed relationships, same sex marriages, same
>> sex relationships. We have already discussed on this list a number of
>> times about whether or not same sex love is allowed in Islam.
>> Regarding this there are plenty of resources. What I would like to
>> know is what folks here feel about the Islamic marriage itself which
>> in its historical essence i.e 9th to 13th century fiqh in all the 4
>> madhabs is primarily the sale of the woman's sexual organs to the man
>> ( see Kecia Ali's article in Progressive Muslims) . The idea of
>> monogamous committed relationships within Islam is of fairly recent
>> vintage, and I have a feeling is linked to a variety of factors from
>> the women's movement to capitalism. Now this said what is the space
>> for other kinds of committed relationships within the Islamic
>> discourse that has historically explicitly allowed concubinage.
>> 
>> The debate we have been having is also one of strategy. Should we just
>> throw questions in the air and leave it open ended in our book because
>> of the nature of controversy- OR- should we take an explicit position
>> despite the consequences-ala susan sontag. Is leaving this debate
>> ambiguous and speaking generally of compassion a cop out because the
>> activist at the end of the day will need to address this question in
>> the line of her work.-
>> 
>> What do you folks think??
>> 
>> Warmest, kabir
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>> References
>> 
>> 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENIN/2734??PS=
> 
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