CryoNet #32144 - #32147

CryoNet - Sun 8 Nov 2009

    #32144: Re: CryoNet #32141 - #32143 [RAMole]
    #32145: living on a planet with six billion suicidal maniacs [John de Rivaz]
    #32147: Promotion of an online group. [Dennis]

1 message(s) removed from digest due to low reputation.

Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32144%2D32147

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32144
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:25:17 EST
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32141 - #32143

Regarding organ transplants, I think they want organs from young healthy  
people brain-dead from accidents, and really cannot use organs that might 
have  cancer cells or come from sick elderly people. Since most cryonics 
patients are  old, and/or very sick when they die, very very few would qualify as 
donors  anyway. Frankly, I imagine that when you die of natural causes -- 
cancer, heart  failure, diabetes or the like -- all your organs are dead or 
dying too, and not  at all suitable or desirable  for transplants. Thus I 
doubt that the  donor establishment resents us, at least when they give it a 
minute's  thought.
 
 
Maybe someone could ask, but this is my understanding.
 

Alan Mole  


Message  #32141
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
References:  <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Cryonics and  organ transplants
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:46:10 -0000

Thanks, Steve,  for giving all the details of why cryonics and organ 
transplants cannot be  combined.

I do however see the organ transplant industry as being the  greatest 
opponent of cryonics compared to others that are often suggested.  If you 
consider the facts, religion and cryonics are actually on the same  side - 
cryonics doesn't offer infinite life, merely life of indefinite  duration. 
Religion tells is followers to respect their own life and that of  others, 
(although a few of its adherents seem to lose this point at times.)  Law 
may 
seem hostile at times, but in fact it is totally neutral. It is just  a 
system for gathering money and treats all "customers" alike as long as  
they 
can pay. The only difference between it and other businesses is the  degree 
of cooercion involved.

But the transplant industry and  cryonics are competing for the same 
resource. At the moment, cryonics is not  a significant consumer of the 
transplant industry's resources. But if 30% of  the population ever did 
decide to be cryopreserved, then it could be seen  differently. I feel 
confident that this fear is behind utterances such as  "hamburger to cow". 
They are propaganda, not logical arguments, to stop a  war that the 
transplant industry would probably lose, ever  starting.

Of course within decades rather than centuries harvesting  organs for 
transplant will not be necessary or desireable. Instead they will  be grown 
from the patients' own cells. Once this happens, cryonics will seem  more 
credible and will lose its real opponent. But maybe it will seldom be  
necessary for those living at the time.

-- 
Sincerely, John de  Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe,  Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor,  Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad ..  
and
more

Message #32140
Subject: Cryonics and organ  transplants
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:49:01 -0500
From:  [email protected]


OK, I don't usually jump in on these discussions, but  I can see the 
enthusiasm building for what might sound like a reasonable  idea.

Before you all waste many hours of your lives trying to persuade  Alcor to 
donate the organs of neuropatients, let me dump some ice water  reality on 
you. <del> 

Rate This Message:  http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32141


Message  #32142
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:39:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Luke Parrish  <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Cryonics and organ  transplants

I'd just like to point out (from an idealist's standpoint)  that if 
cryonics had become the world standard (or even just the civilized  world's 
standard) back when it first came out, for preserving the clinically  dead, these 
problems would long since have been solved and *nobody* would be  suffering 
from a lack of organ donation.

So again, it is selfish of  people not to sign up for and/or support 
cryonics. If the bulk of the population  supported cryonics, donated organ 
availability would skyrocket because it would  be economically justifiable to 
overcome these hurdles. The incredibly small size  of the current cryonics 
"industry" is the root of the problem.

From a  realist's standpoint, cryonics won't be a source of organ donation 
for many  years, and cloned organs will most likely be available before that 
happens. The  exception would be if cryonics suddenly catches on very 
popularly, in which case  I expect it to be regularly performed directly in 
hospitals by specialists in  vascular medicine.





 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32144

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32145
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: living on a planet with six billion suicidal maniacs
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:04:00 -0000

The Dad's Army of British cryonics
In sleepy Sussex is a group of dedicated cryonicists who believe they hold the secret to eternal life. Simon Hattenstone joins them for a demonstration 

this long and very readable article can be found on

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/07/cryonics-british-dads-army

and appeared in the respected British newspaper The Guardian on Saturday, 7 November 2009.

It features in part the debate between Mike Darwin, now apparently working with KrioRus, and those at present attempting cryonics. Hence the title which reflects in part Darwin's opinion.

Comment:

When will journalists learn that it is not "eternal life" but "indefinite lifespan"?

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more


 Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32145

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32147
From: Dennis <[email protected]>
Subject: Promotion of an online group.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:20:49 -0500

--_c981c109-d4fd-40ad-a16d-811fff7ecb71_


Hi All,

I'm promoting an online group of mine. The primary purpose of this group is for cryonicists/life-extentionists to
liaise with each other for businesses/work/jobs or other 'money making' activities.
The ramifications of these go well beyond the immediate monetary benifits.

The group can be found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tradecommunity/


On a related note the recent LJ case has (once again) highlighted the importance of hiring cryonicists in cryonics organisations.(it goes without saying that hiring a person just because he's a cryonicist isn't the sole criteria but it's a great first level screening) In case your are aware of work/job postings at CI/Alcor please post it in this group.



Dennis
(A CI member living in Toronto, Canada)


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now!
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691819
--_c981c109-d4fd-40ad-a16d-811fff7ecb71_

 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32147

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************