CryoNet #32243 - #32246

CryoNet - Wed 23 Dec 2009

    #32243: Perhaps off topic, response to Coyne book review [Rudi Hoffman]
    #32244: social identity and well being [doctor Robert]
    #32246: Cozy place to live near Alcor [david pizer]

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Message #32243
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:44:06 -0500
Subject: Perhaps off topic, response to Coyne book review
From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>

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Hello, fellow cryonetters and lurkers,

Thank you, Steve Bridge, for the interesting review of J. Coyne's book.

I am reading a not dissimilar book by Richard Dawkins, "The Greatest Show on
Earth: The Evidence for Evolution."

Dawkins makes reference to Jerry Coyne somewhat extensively throughout the
book...and Coyne says of the book on the back book jacket "...This important
and timely book is a must-read for Darwin year."

I have been a fan of Dawkins for many years, as he is perhaps the most
influential thinker expounding the rationalist, atheist, skeptic position,
probably in the world right now.

Like many reading this, I am also enthusiastic about Dawkin's colleagues Sam
Harris, Daniel Dennet, and Christopher Hitchins.
Harris is especially profound, clear, and a delight to read.  Even for those
of us a skeptic persuasion, "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian
Nation" were, for lack of better accolades, life changing.  I am proud to
support his "Reason Foundation" with a monthly contribution.

Dawkin's clear thinking and profound book, "The God Delusion" was
terrific...making explicit what many of us have suspected all along.  That
is, that religion is delusional thinking, calcified into society.   When one
person talks to invisible friends, and makes claims clearly at odds with
objective reality, he is rightfully identified as delusional, insane,
perhaps dangerous.

When a large group of people do the exact same behavior, under the shield of
religion, we not only honor them, take them seriously, and provide reverence
for their leaders.  We go even further and protect their claims and beliefs
from rational and critical discourse!   This is why discussions of religion,
and comparative belief systems, SHOULD be in the public square.

Freedom of belief and freedom of religion should not be confused with
freedom from discussion or critical thinking because insanity is hiding
behind the curtain of religion.

BTW, I recently went to an "in person" debate between Dinesh D'Souza and
Christopher Hitchens.

Quite remarkably, the venue was a large stadium.  Packed, every seat
filled.  As near as I could tell, about 70% of the audience was there in
church groups to cheer on D'Souza.  Who, surprisingly, was better than I
expected at defending the Christian doctrine/beliefs.  (I have read his
writing, which is pretty high on the annoyance scale.)  The churchgoers,
almost universally better dressed, and, darn it, plain old fashioned better
looking than most of us "heathen" were quite impressed.   In the two rather
distinct lines for booksigning after the event, some of my male linemates
were observing that the Christian oriented line simply had foxier ladies.
Excuse this bit of shallow superficiality, but they were right.

But Hitch got his points across, to enthusiastic cheering.  The reality is
probably that reasoned discourse and nuanced conversations are generally
better done in print.

I was pleased when, during the question session, someone had penned the
question to D'Souza, "Why does god hate amputees?  People claim healing
prayers are answered in the affirmative by the thousands on internal
problems that can't be clearly seen.  The Bible clearly states that "what
you ask, believing, you will receive."  So, given the thousands of amputees
who have been prayed for, where we can all clearly SEE what is
truly happening, why does god only heal those with INTERNAL problems which
are less distinct in their expression?  Why does god discriminate and hate
amputees?"

D'Souza's answer, after an extended pause, was to the effect that "amputees
often have quality lives, and happiness set points, that rebound...and that
god is allowing them to learn compassion. Blah, blah, blah..."  Lame and
non-responsive, but it thrilled the masses.

These guys were treated like rock stars.  Like hundreds of others, I lined
up after the event to get my books signed by Hitchens.

I will probably be excoriated by some for bringing religion into discussion
on Cryonet...but, at least my topic heading warned of off topic content.

Gotta go to work, underwriting and administrative challenges abound.  I
shouldn't have allowed myself the time for this posting, but wanted to add
some perhaps interesting comments to cryonet.

Reason's Greetings to all,

Rudi

-- 
Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC

World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com
Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org,
Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org
Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/

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Message #32244
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:35:30 -0800
Subject: social identity and well being
From: doctor Robert <[email protected]>

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Re: #32220 I am glad that someone (David) has introduced this topic to our
net. I have been wondering for some time what impact our hoped for emergence
into a totally new and possibly quite alien world, without any real-time
connections to our remembered social networks, might have on our self
consciousness, or even basic identity. I have, without any justification
what-so-ever, thought that those of us with very strong and well integrated
ego's might be able to hold our sense of self in these conditions and get on
with the task of learning how to adapt to our new and novel circumstances.
This might not be the case, as the article referenced by David,
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121596786/abstract, would seem to
suggest. If we are  likely to not be able to find a sense of well-being, and
perhaps not able to create the ego strength to undergo the rigors of the new
tasks in front of us, we  may not fully come to our selves. It may be that
we are well advised to bring along as many memento's of past community
connections as we can via pics, sound files, video clips, etc. to assist our
re-integration into the new communities in which we find ourselves. Dr.
Robert
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Message #32246
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:44:58 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: Cozy place to live near Alcor

Here is a reminder to those cryonicists who would like to live in Scottsdale close to Alcor.   My friend Andy has a big 5 bedroom home on a full acre near Alcor and he would like to rent out some rooms to cryonicists.  You get full use of the whole house.

He has reasonable rates whether you want to stay for a few weeks or for several months, or longer.

Give him a call at 623  234-1563 or drop me an email for more info.

David Pizer

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