CryoNet #32280 - #32283

CryoNet - Mon 4 Jan 2010

    #32280: Re: Bedford Day celebration [benbest]
    #32281: Re: Avatar better than Lord of the Rings [David Stodolsky]
    #32282: Spiritualism has a majority following in the USA [David Stodolsky]
    #32283: Re: Avatar better than Lord of the Rings [Mathew Sullivan]

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Message #32280
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:00:17 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bedford Day celebration

   Yes, the Holiday Season has just begun !

   There will also be a Bedford Day celebration
in Toronto, Canada next week, Saturday, January 9th.
Temperatures may be closer to cryogenic in Canada than
in Oregon, but the party itself will be hot, hot, hot !

   See: http://www.cryocdn.org/news.html for more details.

              -- Ben Best

> Message #32279
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:58:58 -0800
> Subject: Bedford Day celebration
> From: Chana de Wolf <[email protected]>
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> Cryonics Oregon is happy to announce a meeting on Tuesday, January
> 12th, 2010, in honor and celebration of Dr. James Bedford, the longest
> cryopreserved human (who remains preserved at Alcor to this day!).
>
> Please join us at Carafe Bistro (http://www.carafebistro.com/) in
> downtown Portland at 7:30 p.m. for wine, fantastic food, and, of
> course, enjoyable company and conversation.
>
> Due to the location of this event, an accurate headcount is absolutely
> necessary for our reservation, so PLEASE RSVP as soon as possible and
> let me know how many will be in your group.
>
> You may email me or call me at 503-756-0864.
>
> Our last meeting was very well attended with 18 people showing up. We
> also have a website now at http:.//www.cryonicsoregon.com.
>
> Thanks, and Happy New Year!
>
> Chana de Wolf

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Message #32281
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Avatar better than Lord of the Rings
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:11:01 +0100
References: <[email protected]>

On 2 Jan 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> I know that Lord of the Rings was popular amongst many cryonicists  
> when it
> came out and thought I should give everyone a heads up on Avatar,  
> which is a
> James Cameron movie.  Not only is the story compelling, but the  
> visuals were
> off the chart.  Once the movie was over the audience gave a good  
> round of
> applause.

Cameron takes advantage of the current climate madness with a machines  
vs. Greens fantasy. It appeals to the 'Green Left' that is sure that  
the imagined environmental crisis will lead to the collapse of  
capitalism:

<http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Nature-End-Capitalism-World/product-reviews/1842770810/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending 
 >

It appeals to the religious right, since it confirms their belief in  
an immortal soul (that can be transferred between bodies or integrated  
with 'god'). (Probably also to the religious/spiritual left that  
support the Gaia hypothesis and belief in the sanctity of 'Nature').  
(And maybe to Transhumanist who believe they don't need cryonics,  
since they can be 'uploaded'.)

Unfortunately, all of these tendencies reinforce attitudes that are  
hostile to cryonics. Cryonics is clearly in the 'machine' camp.  
Religious belief is the best indicator of avoidance of information on  
cryonics. Those who oppose doing anything 'against nature' are  
typically opposed to any kind of life-extension technology.

It probably also adds some confusion about what cryonics is, since the  
line 'you don't dream when you are in cryo'  makes no sense from a  
scientific standpoint.

If Avatar develops a cult following, it could be a breeding ground for  
a green terrorist movement along the lines of the Animal Liberation  
Front, but with a wider agenda:

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/

<http://books.google.com/books?id=VMKFBr3ZVDUC&dq=Animal+Liberation+Front&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=7qNAS6r1HdH6_AbxtMyGAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=19&ved=0CFMQ6AEwEg#v=onepage&q=Animal%20Liberation%20Front&f=false 
 >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WTSUGetKFc


The efforts of the Bush administration to classify environmental  
activists as terrorists has also probably set the stage for this  
happening, since their effort was to convince people that it already  
was true and it has created martyrs:

<http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/25/exclusive_animal_rights_activist_jailed_at 
 >

<http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/23/exclusive_environmental_activist_jeff_free_luers 
 >



dss


David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32282
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Spiritualism has a majority following in the USA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:17:05 +0100

  It looks like spiritualism now has a majority following in the USA :

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/12/opinion/12blow.html?_r=4

Since 1996, the percentage of Americans who said that they have been  
in the presence of a ghost has doubled from 9 percent to 18 percent,  
and the percentage who said that they were in touch with someone who  
was dead has increased by nearly two thirds, rising from 18 percent to  
29 percent.


(Paul's thesis is supported by these recent changes. He states that  
greater social and economic instability is expected to produce greater  
religiosity. This could explain the recent 'stagnation' in signups. I  
don't expect we will see any signups from the 29 percent who said that  
they were in touch with someone who was dead.)


dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32283
From: Mathew Sullivan <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:10:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Avatar better than Lord of the Rings

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David Stodolsky,


Interesting interpretation on how people see things differently when looking
at a piece of artwork.  I looked at the movie from the perspective of
American History as one example.  Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be an
American, but there are some facts in our history that are not pleasant.  I
looked at the movie from the perspective of Native American oppression and
extermination, and even the Vietnamese who used nature against superior
Western technology.  In fact, Native American culture came through from my
observation and others who watched the movie.


Most cryonicists are religious and fall into the camp of Atheist or
Theist. What's
unfortunate is that some cryonicists who are Atheist are judgmental against
Theists, but that is also true for some of those who are religious
throughout various societies.  I'm in the minority position of Agnostic.  I'm
also a Transhumanist and a die-hard cryonicist, but I don't see any
disconnect, at least not for me.  Through science and technology, I can
envision having many bodies and a virtual extension of myself, which are all
interconnected.


As far as machines are concerned, both sides were composed of machines.  One
camp was highly reliant on machines forged from metal in conjunction with
wetware, and the other camp was mostly wetware.  This reminds me of what
happened in Vietnam where pits were filled with sharpened sticks and used
against those with superior technological power.  Again, the Native American
culture came through in view of living with nature as compared to Western
culture which has been about dominance and control over nature.


I'm not aware of any scientific evidence to support that cryonics patients
dream.  Unless I missed some detail here, it sounds a bit metaphysical if
you ask me.  And the propagation of fear that this movie could develop into
a cult and become a breeding ground for terrorists reminds me of those who
like to burn books.


If there is any lesson I pulled out of the movie is that societies who think
they are superior should not judge other cultures too hastily, nor view them
as inferior life forms without rights.  If aliens came from another planet
with superior technology and told you that you had to move from your home
today or suffer the consequences, would you not consider that an act of
evil?


James Cameron's interpretation appears to be much simpler than mine.  I've
tried to post a functional link here a number of times for his interview,
but cryonet doesn't like it, so google: "james cameron don't pigeonhole
avatar"


Also, I wish to note, based on your post in regards to the treatment of
animals, that we homosapiens are animals too and we should respect other
lifeforms in the animal kingdom.  Those "lower” lifeforms may not be able to
express their feelings as readily as we can with each other, but that does
not mean they cannot think, experience pleasure, and even suffer in pain.  This
doesn't mean I'm going to run out and become a vegan, but there is something
to be said for the humane treatment of our fellow animals.


Mathew Sullivan

When you stand upon the truth, you can defend against many things that are
false.

http://www.mathewsullivan.com/

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