CryoNet #32289 - #32293

CryoNet - Thu 7 Jan 2010

    #32289: Re: uploading and survival [yvan Bozzonetti]
    #32290: Re: CryoNet #32288 Quantum effects [yvan Bozzonetti]
    #32291: Re: uploading and survival [Keith Henson]
    #32292: Re: CryoNet #32287 - #32288 [Freeposity]
    #32293: Re: CryoNet #32287 - #32288 [robomoon]

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Message #32289
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:43:08 +0100
Subject: Re: uploading and survival
From: yvan Bozzonetti <[email protected]>

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From: [email protected]
> Freeposity writes in part:
> >I have yet to see a valid argument  against
> >uploading.
>
> In Youniverse I have discussed this at length, and  shown--conclusively
> in my opinion--that uploading would not constitute survival  by any
> reasonable definition.
>
> Robert Ettinger
>

On a philosophical basis, this may be true.
Yet in practice, things may be more involved.
For me, it seems that uploading is simpler to implement that  biological
survival.
A simple argument is that biological repair would need a molecular scale map
to see what must be  corrected.
That same map would be the essential element in a upload project. For
biological repair it is only a first step.
So, uploading must come first as a byproduct of biological repair.
A uploaded copy may be the best "person" or simulation motivated to conduct
the biorepair work.

Yvan Bozzonetti

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Message #32290
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:49:09 +0100
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32288 Quantum effects
From: yvan Bozzonetti <[email protected]>

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> From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
>
> There is evidence that quantum effects occur at nerve junctions. If
> this is correct, then the conventional computer architecture, which is
> based upon deterministic circuits would not be a possible physical
> basis for 'uploading'.
>
> dss


Please, could you give me a reference about this?
I know that that was one of the idea of physicist Roger Penrose, yet I have
never seen a biochemical argument for it.
Even if there was a quantum process at synapse junction, why would be it
impossible to compute it on a classical computer?
Current computers are doing quantum computation every day in some labs.

Yvan Bozzonetti.

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Message #32291
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 04:15:07 -0800
Subject: Re: uploading and survival
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:00 AM, [email protected] wrote:

> Freeposity writes in part:
>
>>I have yet to see a valid argument  against
>>uploading.
>
> In Youniverse I have discussed this at length, and  shown--conclusively
> in my opinion--that uploading would not constitute survival  by any
> reasonable definition.

I came to the opposite conclusion for reversible uploading.  One way
uploading might or might not constitute survival, but in any case is
more drastic than is needed.

http://www.terasemjournals.org/GN0202/henson.html

Keith Henson

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Message #32292
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:27:09 -0600
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32287 - #32288
From: Freeposity <[email protected]>

> From: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:05:01 EST
> Subject: uploading and survival
>
> Freeposity writes in part:
>
>>I have yet to see a valid argument  against
>>uploading.
>
>
> In Youniverse I have discussed this at length, and  shown--conclusively
> in my opinion--that uploading would not constitute survival  by any
> reasonable definition.
>
> Robert Ettinger
>

Your argument in Youniverse is terribly flawed.

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Message #32293
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:48:18 +0100 (CET)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32287 - #32288
References: <[email protected]>

Even if uploading would not constitute survival, it's nevertheless a constructive consolation in case of death. Yet it's good when uploading works to lower the great loss of personality-related information which most often happened after death. Therefore, uploading will be an important makeshift alternative for me to make a constructive consolidation come true. In such a case, it's not the purely fictional mind uploading, but the uploading of remains in DNA and digital or computer-readable information from former individual humans who should become artificial creatures in cyberspace. Anyways, it's also important for some mentally ill or socially oppressed individuals who cannot afford to sign up for cryonic suspension of their brain.

For a broader description of the phrase "makeshift alternative": Mental illness among homeless individuals in a suburban county http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/48/4/504 by G Haugland, C Siegel, K Hopper and MJ Alexander. Epidemiology and Health Services Research Laboratory, Nathan S. Kline Institute for Psychiatric Research. 1997, American Psychiatric Association.

robomoon

Robert Ettinger writes:

> In Youniverse I have discussed this at length, and  shown--conclusively 
> in my opinion--that uploading would not constitute survival  by any
> reasonable definition.

///



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