CryoNet #32453 - #32456

CryoNet - Sun 7 Mar 2010

    #32453: Re: skeptic podcast about science based medicine [David Stodolsky]
    #32454: (REPUTATION TOO LOW) [Jens Rabis]
    #32455: Re: Rudi's suggestions [flavonoid]
    #32456: Re: CryoNet #32448 - Rudi's 'Top Ten' [Kitty Antonik Wakfer]

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Message #32453
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: skeptic podcast about science based medicine
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:43:31 +0100
References: <[email protected]>

On 6 Mar 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> A medical skeptic considers radical life extension "early science"
> instead of fringe or pseudo science.
>
> http://www.forgoodreason.org/harriet_hall_science_based_medicine

She also recommends Quack Watch:

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/cryonics.html


dss


David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32454
From: [email protected]
Subject: (REPUTATION TOO LOW)

<<< POSTER'S REPUTATION TOO LOW >>>

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Message #32455
Subject: Re: Rudi's suggestions
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 13:09:16 -0500
From: [email protected]

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 Re: the below, I'm sure Rudi just forgot to mention it.  Can anyone guess why? :D
++++++++++++

Message #32452
Subject: Re: Rudi's suggestions
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:30:50 -0500
From: [email protected]

In Reply to: 

>Message #32448
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:36:48 -0500
>Subject: Top Ten Behaviors to Avoid Being the Next Cryonics Legal Case...
>From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>

Rudi, you left off one major idea.  For those in a cash position to do so, members may pre-pay their suspension funding.



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Message #32456
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 23:50:11 -0700
From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32448 - Rudi's 'Top Ten'
References: <[email protected]>

I will only respond to a small portion of Rudi's message, which I am 
sure he has written to be helpful to current and future cryonicists, 
even though there is more with which I can take issue - and also agree. 
This last specifically being with the non-anonymity of one's cryonics 
arrangements, which I have strongly urged in previous messages here.

> Message #32448
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:36:48 -0500
> Subject: Top Ten Behaviors to Avoid Being the Next Cryonics Legal Case...
> From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>
>
>
>   
[deleted the first 4 points]
> 5.  For cash--as opposed to life insurance--funding, the optimal secure
> funding is some form of a GUARANTEED annuity.  The cryonics organization
> need not be the OWNER of the policy if they are listed as the IRREVOCABLE
> BENEFICIARY.  Variable annuities, even with underlying income guarantees,
> will not work because the death benefit and principle are not guaranteed to
> be there when needed.
>   
While this last statement may be true for some variable annuities (I 
frankly don't know), it is *not* true for the variable annuities that I 
have with Vanguard and which fund our cryopreservation arrangements with 
Alcor (approved by the Alcor Board in December 2005). These annuities 
guarantee the full amount of our initial contribution to them as long as 
we have not removed anything from them, which we do not intend to do (if 
ever) until their values have risen far above that initial amount 
required by Alcor at the time of our signup. The payout amount is the 
current value of the fund (current at the time of legal death) or the 
amount of the initial contribution reduced only by any principle 
portions withdrawn, whichever is greater at the time of legal death. I 
had to own both annuities because Paul is not a US citizen/resident but 
0is immigration-wise only a visitor during the 6 months yearly that he 
spends in Arizona. Alcor is both sole annuitant beneficiary and sole 
owner beneficiary. The latter means that if I preceded Paul in legal 
death, then Alcor would get the payout from both annuities and from then 
on Paul would effectively have a prepaid cryopreservation.

> Annuities with named beneficiaries also avoid probate, although there can be
> some taxable considerations, unlike life insurance.
Our annuity arrangements totally avoid taxes. Alcor (individuals there 
named by us) can verify online at anytime the current status of the 
annuities. Money for these annuities came from a combination of pre-tax 
savings (IRA and 401-k) for mine and from combined after taxes savings 
for Paul. This arrangement assures Alcor of full funding for the minimum 
of the neuro arrangements for both of us (the purchase amount), and much 
more if/when the stock market improves beyond the current level, which
is already a few thousand ahead, though considerably below the high of 2 
years ago.

Among the advantages of such an annuity arrangement over life insurance 
are the ability to guide ones own investments (but within the 
limitations of the various mutual-type subfunds that are available from 
the vendor for that type of investment vehicle) and the ability to get 
back some of one's investment for use in one's old age if needed and if
the fund has increased sufficiently. Yes, in theory we could deplete the 
fund so that it is below Alcor's minimum cryopreservation requirement, 
but we know that would and should mean refusal by Alcor to cryopreserve 
us, which is why Alcor has the ability to examine the funding online 
whenever they wish. Note that we will never give power of attorney over 
our affairs to anyone who is also not a dedicated cryonicist and totally 
trusted friend.
>   The annuity also must
> waive surrender penalties upon death, to assure the cryonics organization
> full funding.
>   
I can only think that you are referring to the early withdrawal 
penalties that all such investment funds have. However, with the 
Vanguard variable annuities these penalties do not apply to any death 
benefit (and besides, we don't plan to suffer legal death until long 
after that duration - 5 years - is over :) So any such waiver is 
automatic with variable annuities from Vanguard, which is among the many 
reasons we chose them after a search.

**Kitty Antonik Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Self-sovereignty, rational pursuit of optimal lifetime happiness,
individual responsibility, social preferencing & social contracting

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