CryoNet #32547 - #32549

CryoNet - Thu 8 Apr 2010

    #32547: Re: Analogies & Thought Experiments  [David Stodolsky]
    #32548: Re: Analogies & Thought Experiments [Keith Henson]
    #32549: a few for 2 [Ettinger]

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Message #32547
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Analogies & Thought Experiments 
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:07:32 +0200
References: <[email protected]>

On 7 Apr 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> As Kurzweil pointed out, even if consciousness depended on a  
> standing wave, a standing wave can be emulated. Even if the standing  
> wave were a quantum effect, which is very unlikely, in theory it  
> could be quantum computed.

As I have posted here before, there is a theoretically sound argument,  
now with some support, that quantum effects occur at nerve junctions.  
Current quantum computers are limited to around a dozen qbits, due to  
the breakdown of coherence. There are more junctions in the brain than  
there are stars in the Universe. So, unless someone comes up with a  
way around this vast mismatch in magnitude, uploading will remain  
nothing more than a hope and dream.


dss


David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32548
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 05:10:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Analogies & Thought Experiments
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:00 AM, 2Arcturus <[email protected]> wrote:

snip

> As I think Moravec suggested, in a thought experiment, a person could be transferred from one body to another by bringing one small part of the mind offline in one body while bringing it online in the other, piece by piece, while conscious. If the nervous systems of the two bodies were synced, the person could literally carry on a conversation without pausing while this was taking place. This would go a long way, I think, to answering the "gut instinct" objection, because then people could actually feel, observe, and experience the continuity of thought and physical embodiment from one substrate to another.

I found Moravec's description rather distasteful, a one way transfer
and no way to get back.  It might be acceptable if a person was near
death.  That's unlikely because the technology needed for the transfer
is more advanced than it would take to cure any kind of problem
including age.

There is no reason for such a drastic approach.  Advanced
nanotechnology would allow a fully reversible uploading starting with
"mere" neural interfaces.  I am not the only one who thinks this way.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-t4SB9VQDI8C&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=charles+stross+%22machines+of+loving+grace%22&source=bl&ots=nBRvtDcaHU&sig=ttcbnoCwW-QG5T9lTqJ4X6kR4lo&hl=en&ei=IHW8S6fRFo7QtAOs9fXsBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Also, if you have not read Accelerondo, you should.

Keith Henson

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Message #32549
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:17:48 EDT
Subject:  a few for 2

2Arcturus wrote in part:
 
>As Kurzweil pointed out, even if consciousness depended on  a standing 
wave, a standing wave can be >emulated. 
 
Secondly, this is not necessarily true, if we are talking about 
a digital computer, as mostly we are. In a computer, information
is quantized, whereas in the "world" matter and space and time 
or spacetime may or my not be--they might be continuous. 
There are scads of competing theories or speculations.
 
Firstly, it doesn't matter; it's either irrelevant to the issue, or  it
helps my thesis. A particular standing wave, or quale or set
of qualia, embodies a consciousness, and if one could be 
adequately copied the copy would be another consciousness.
(And if you could be duplicated atom for atom, the duplicate(s),
being necessarily in a different location in space or/and time,
as well as having different futures, could not be "you" 100%.
Of course, a fractional overlap is the best you can get in
any case. Enjoy.
 
Robert Ettinger
 


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