CryoNet #32644 - #32645

CryoNet - Mon 21 Jun 2010

    #32644: Re: Religion & Cryonics [David Stodolsky]
    #32645: Misrepresenting Staff Members as Medial Professionals [Melody Maxim]

Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32644%2D32645

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe
To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to:
    [email protected]
from the same address to which you are aubscribed.
Send questions, comments, or feedback to [email protected]
with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line.

Since all CryoNet messages are archived and accessible via WWW,
including search engines, make certain that your postings
reflect how you want the world to see you.

To retrieve past messages, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the message numbers in the subject line.
(Message 0003 describes the advanced syntax.)
You also can retrieve them via the CryoNet web page at URL:
    http://www.cryonet.org/

For administrative or other questions/suggestions, send email
to me at "[email protected]" with "cryonics" in the subject line.
    - Kevin Q. Brown


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32644
Subject: Re: Religion & Cryonics
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:01:46 +0200
References: <[email protected]>

On 20 Jun 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> So cryonicist philosophers need to understand this widespread intuition about "spirits" and the afterlife, and understand why it is intuitive, and what the alternatives would be, and how to explain them to the general public.

It isn't philosophers, but psychologists who study intuitions. Terror management theory gives a pretty good explanation:

<http://cosmism.blogspot.com/2010/05/existentialism-today-terror-management.html>

Any alternative would offer another approach to dealing with the fear of death.

Explaining cryonics to the general public would require presenting an alternative that is as close as possible to the currently accepted methods for dealing with this fear. So, for example, instead of forcing people to signup with a suspension provider, we could offer membership in a 'church'. We could avoid introducing new words or making common words take on a new meaning, as much as possible. Instead of calling suspended people 'patients,' we could call them 'suspendees', which has more positive associations from science fiction. Instead of explaining what 'cryonics' is, we could talk about 'mummification at low temperatures'. 

Many people already believe that reversible suspension is technologically feasible. Many believe that aliens have landed on the Earth and therefore that space travel is practical. So, we can take advantage of these preexisting beliefs. The same psychology that drives belief in "spirits", is probably responsible for these other beliefs. The Realian religion demonstrates that there are plenty of people ready to hand over large sums of money to anyone offering support for these types of beliefs. I lay out this argument in more detail in my podcast:

<http://cosmism.blogspot.com/2010/01/salvation-in-space-age-or-how-does.html>


With a small investment, roughly the amount wasted every year in the Movement at the moment, a new organizational model could be tested. Success would mean recruitment of between a few hundred and a few thousand new cryonicists in a few years. 


dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32644

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32645
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:46:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: Melody Maxim <[email protected]>
Subject: Misrepresenting Staff Members as Medial Professionals

I think it damages the credibility of cryonics organizations, to represent staff members as medical professionals when they are not. In fact, I am often tempted to argue it is a form of consumer fraud. It doesn't take much common sense to know that people interested in cryonics, who view photos of people appearing to be performing surgical procedures, while dressed up in medical garb, and being referred to as "surgeons," "perfusionists," or other specific medical professionals, will be left with the impression these people have the appropriate qualifications, to be referred to as such. It would be extremely difficult for me to believe that the people behind those photos and case reports were not fully aware of this. 

Not long ago, Michael "Mike Darwin" Federowicz publicly claimed to, at one time, have been a "board-eligible perfusionist." As far as I know, Mr. Federowicz has never met the requirements anyone making that claim should certainly be aware of, those being having graduated from an accredited school of perfusion, and performed 100 - 125 human perfusions in a conventional surgical setting. (The number of required cases was formerly 100, but was increased in recent years.) I have an email from a nurse, who was present at an Alcor case, who claims Mr. Federowicz claimed both he and Tanya Jones were qualified nurses, when they were not. I doubt these have been Mr. Federowicz' only misrepresentations of his qualifications, or skills.

I think some laymen who have been allowed to perform medical procedures at Alcor and Suspended Animation take themselves far too seriously, once they put on those scrubs. Those garments do not make them medical professionals, any more than donning tutu's would make them ballerinas. Again, I think this is a form of misrepresentation to members of the public, who would never dream a company claiming to be a "pioneer," or "leader," in what should be advanced medical science, would allow laymen to attempt to perform vascular cannulations, perfusion, decapitations, or other medical procedures, for which they are not qualified. This type of behavior makes these companies appear to be scams.

Recently, while I was searching a perfusion-related site for the name of a perfusionist at a hospital near my home, I was surprised to see Suspended Animation's Kelly Kingston listed as a member, and claiming to be a perfusionist, in her member profile. As far as I know, Ms. Kingston is an EMT, not a perfusionist. It is the responsibility of members of that perfusion-related forum, to accurately represent themselves. "EMT" is not a choice, on the drop-down menu, for "Occupation" on that site, (most likely because, unless an EMT has other medical qualifications, they are extremely unlikely to be working in a setting that involves perfusion). While "EMT" is not offered as a selection, "Other occupation" is, and Ms. Kingston should have made that choice. I have no objections to Ms. Kingston b
 eing a member of the perfusion-related site, but I feel it is inappropriate for her to misrepresent her medical qualifications. I would certainly never dream of joining an EMT-related forum, and representing myself as an EMT. 


Melody Maxim

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32645

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************