CryoNet #32651 - #32655

CryoNet - Wed 23 Jun 2010

    #32651: Re: Melody's Blunder  [John de Rivaz]
    #32652: Brain Preservation Petition [Luke Parrish]
    #32653: Re: CryoNet #32646 - #32650 [Freeposity]
    #32654: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat [Jonano]
    #32655: Re: CryoNet #32644 [Dani Kollin]

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Message #32651
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Melody's Blunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:24:54 +0100

All this talk about people being "properly medically qualified" to perform cryonics procedures suggests a faith in the medical profession that I wonder whether is relevant. Maybe it is different in the USA, but in the UK a lot of mistakes are made, and poor procedures performed, by qualified medical professionals such as

Confusing a vein and an artery resulting in a patient undergoing examination under anaesthetic to have permanent damage from a stroke
Throwing away patients' dentures
Allowing patients to become undernourished in hospital by not noticing that they are too disabled to feed themselves
Allowing patients severely confused from strokes to become soiled and left like that for days
They may not blindfold patients in hospital beds. But they will keep spectacles, taken away for operations, for days afterwards purely for administrative reasons, causing similar disorientation and unnecessary stress. 

In short, in a cryonics situation are they really any better than people who have had a very narrow education in terms of the actual procedure they are to perform? At least cryonics patients are unaware of what is happening. 

The other issue is what these narrowly educated cryonics people are paid. Unfortunately many people are paid more for their work than the "man in the street" thinks they ought to be. It is very much a matter of opinion. Will Alcor and SA get better or worse, medically uneducated, people if they offer less money? If no one suitable comes forward they have to offer more.

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

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Message #32652
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Luke Parrish <[email protected]>
Subject: Brain Preservation Petition

If you haven't already, read the letter and sign the petition.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brainpreservation/

Honestly I have doubts (after talking to some knowledgeable people here) about the theoretical upper bounds of embedding in plastic versus low-temperature cryogenic preservation. And obviously chemical fixation is non-reversible by near-term means. 

But the fact is that chemical fixation sells better, and the same essential rights and initiatives are covered by endorsing it. As a pragmatic matter, I feel that getting attention to this initiative is going to be more effective than directly focusing on cryogenic methods of preservation (where we have seen LOTS of evidence that most people cannot be trusted to remain rational on the topic).

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Message #32653
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:34:51 -0500
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32646 - #32650
From: Freeposity <[email protected]>

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:00 AM, CryoNet <[email protected]> wrote:
> CryoNet - Tue 22 Jun 2010
>

Melody Maxim wrote the following....


This is not the only occasion on which the anonymous FD has falsely
accused me of being paid to write about cryonics.
...

It seems FD is proud of himself for slinging false accusations from
behind an anonymous name, and gets his jollies from imagining I'm
"distraught" if I misspell a word.

...

You guys take care...I don't care how much some of you hate me...I
really think you don't stand the proverbial "ice cube's chance in
hell," for as long as cryonics activities continue to be managed the
way they have, for the last 40 years. In my mind, the "something"
Alcor and/or SA are delivering isn't much better than nothing, and I
believe with all my heart that it could be so much better.

________________________________________________________________________________________


I always use a psuedonym. It seems to me that anonymity is a right and
disparaging its use because you choose to expose yourself is a little
disturbing.

I don't hate you. In fact I'm glad you write. Your criticisms seem to
be well thought out and your suggestions for improvement do not seem
unreasonable at all.

While I don't know all the detail about the Larry Johnson situation it
does seem to me that a lot of his criticisms stem from a fundamental
inability to see cryonics as a successful endeavor. Also while your
points about professional medical procedures are owrhty of discussion
we must keep in mind that perfusion procedures are not necessarily
medical procedures. They are biological information storage
techniques.

It seems to me, someone who is not in a medical or scientific
profession, that reanimation will require such profound technological
advances that would render a lot of the criticism about what is and
isn't a medical procedure a moot point.


If we can't handle criticism then cryonics is doomed. We need the
feedback loop of criticism in order to improve and survive.


-- 
Money isn't speech.
A Corporation isn't a person.
http://www.movetoamend.org/

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Message #32654
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:20:13 +0200
Subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat
From: Jonano <[email protected]>

Good wikipedia article to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

--Jon

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Message #32655
From: Dani Kollin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32644
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:26:44 -0700
References: <[email protected]>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message #32644
> Subject: Re: Religion & Cryonics
> From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:01:46 +0200
> References: <[email protected]>
>
As a marketing copywriter I couldn't agree with David more. We can
stand on principle and use the "most accurate" (my quotes) definitions
that cyronics has to offer or we can use the tool that marketers have
used to great effect for centuries - words that work to sell their
products most effectively. This doesn't imply duplicity as per David
Ogilvy's great maxim, "nothing will kill a product faster than good
advertising." What it does do is recognize people's innate comfort
with certain words and images and uses those words and images to best
sell _our_ product - cryonics.

Dani Kollin

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