CryoNet #32711 - #32713

CryoNet - Thu 15 Jul 2010

    #32711: Response to Mr. Ettinger's Cryonet Message #32709 [Melody Maxim]
    #32712: Acceptance of evolution [David Stodolsky]
    #32713: Again for Melody & others [Ettinger]

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Message #32711
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:16:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: Melody Maxim <[email protected]>
Subject: Response to Mr. Ettinger's Cryonet Message #32709

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Below, is a copy of my post on Cold Filter, here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/message/1279115114/The+Nurse+(For+Mr.+Ettinger) 

Mr. Ettinger: "Below is evidence concerning just one of Johnson's lies concerning an Alcor patient whose death was allegedly deliberately hastened. The writer of the Amazon review was the nurse taking care of the patient. It seems far more likely that the nurse is telling the truth than Johnson." 

Mr. Ettinger, 

We've already been through this, on (the Cold Filter) forum, but maybe you missed it. Johnson did not fabricate the story about that particular incident. He heard the story from his co-workers, and it was virtually identical to the story told to me, by some of my co-workers, at SA. Johnson has a number of Alcor staff members, discussing what appears to be more than one illegal euthanasia, on audiotape. You can hear at least a couple of those recordings, here: http://frozenbook.com/audio.php Also, if you do a thorough search, you can find a lot of Internet discussions, (including comments from Saul Kent), regarding a certain person, whose activities had the potential to be very damaging to cryonics. For someone who has heard the stories, it's easy to "read between the lines." 

The nurse made his first appearance in the public eye, when he called ABC Nightline to claim Johnson was "lying," and to claim the patient in question died in his bedroom alone with his lover, rather than in the garage as Johnson's repetition of the Alcor legend had described. The nurse's version of the story directly contradicts the Alcor case report, (written by Mike Darwin and Keith Henson), which states: "The nurse, who was extremely supportive and competent, had called it close. Nick (with Jim holding his hand to the end) quit breathing and experienced cardiac arrest about half an hour after we got him into the garage ." http://alcor.org/Library/html/casereport9205.html 

I have a hard time believing Mike and Keith lied, about the location of the patient at the time of death, when they wrote their report, 18 years ago. IF they WERE going to lie, they should have told the nurse's version of the story!! Ironically, Carlos Mondragon called ABC Nightline, implying the rumors regarding the illegal euthansia were true and saying Alcor had severed all ties with the person who had been accused, (presumably by Alcor staff members), of hastening the death of an Alcor client. (Unfortunately, Mr. Mondragon was not honest enough to also mention that Alcor brought back the same person, to perform the Ted Williams case.) 

The nurse, whose name had never been mentioned by Johnson, (and I don't believe it was mentioned on Nightline), later wrote the Amazon review and signed his name. At that point, I observed that SOMEONE wasn't telling the truth, (since the nurse's story contradicted the Alcor report and Mondragon's statement), and questioned whether the nurse was attempting to protect his own professional reputation. (Though the best way to do that, would have been simply to remain silent, as no one had ever named him, until he did so, himself.) After that, the nurse kept posting on Amazon, claiming he had tried to contact me many times, but that I had ignored him. I, having never received a single email from him, contacted him, immediately, and we exchanged several polite emails. He insisted the Alcor repo
 rt was wrong, and that the patient had died in the bedroom, rather than the garage, as stated in the Alcor report. He speculated that some of the Alcor staff members fabricated the story about killing someone, (though I can't imagine why they would do that!). He also claimed Mike had identified himself and Tanya, as nurses, at the time of the case. (He was very specific about this...I can't recall the exact details, without digging out my archived files, from an old computer, but I believe he said Mike identified himself as a BSN and Tanya as an LPN.) 

After these very civil exchanges, I had the nerve to go off on a ten-night vacation, without telling anyone. I have a very strict policy of not checking my email, on vacation, and while I was gone the nurse sent me quite a few emails. Apparently, he was offended that I was not responding to him. Not only did his emails get hostile, he went on a rampage, writing nasty things about me, on Amazon, (at the same time he was writing some really nasty, and untrue, things about Larry Johnson). After I remarked on his reckless speculations being libelous, he edited out a lot of the comments he had made, and issued a public apology to both Johnson, and me. 

If you choose to believe the nurse's version of the story, you are going to have to call a lot of people associated with Alcor "liars," such as the people discussing illegal euthanasia on those audiotapes, and the two who wrote the report, which contradicts the nurse's story. Johnson was just repeating what he heard from Alcor's own staff members. Either they were involved in illegal euthanasia, or they lied about being involved in illegal euthanasia...either way, they reek of unethical and unprofessional behavior. 


(End of copy of Cold Filter post.) 


In regard to the ball peen hammer: As I recall, Alcor and/or their attorneys responded to Johnson's allegations, by denying the use of a ball peen hammer, (either publicly, or in court), and claimed to have been using a "medical mallet," when the instrument in the images was clearly a ball peen hammer with a wooden handle. The best thing would have been for them to simply acknowledge they had used a ball peen hammer. The hammer incident was the least of the ethical issues raised, in Johnson's book, and that issue was more about the lies that were told in defending it, than the hammer, itself. As I recall, one Cryonet contributor offered to pay for a real medical mallet, if Alcor would purchase one, because he realized how the public would perceive the ball peen hammer. Sometimes, appearanc
 es count for a lot. 


As a medical professional who has been subjected to numerous personal attacks, and having had many blatant lies told about me, by people defending both SA and Alcor, I will continue to defend Larry Johnson, for so long as I find him more credible than most of the people attacking him. 


Melody Maxim
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Message #32712
Subject: Acceptance of evolution
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:03:21 +0200

<http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/vcu-survey-on-science-and-religion/>

Many scientists"atheists and accommodationists alike"are trying to
educate people about what evolution is and how much evidence supports
it.  Sadly, that doesn't seem to be working very well, at least judging
by how little acceptance of evolution has budged over the last few
decades.


dss

-- 
David Stodolsky, PhD      [email protected]      Skype:davidstodolsky

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Message #32713
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:22:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Again for Melody & others

____________________________________
What's  left after  all the palaver is mostly contradiction and confusion,  
the only clarity being Johnson's deliberately throwing mud for profit.  

I haven't heard the alleged tapes, but would be very surprised if  the 
identities of the speakers were clear and the context not in doubt.  What is 
clear is that Johnson accepts the worst gossip, with the worst  interpretation, 
to make money, and Melody goes along. 

"Euthanasia"  could be, and is, argued ad nauseam, but if--I don't buy it, 
but  if--someone at Alcor shortened a patient's life in order to improve his 
 cryopreservation and possibly end his suffering, to call that "murder" is  
just preposterous. In hospice situations, thousands of times a year,  
narcotics are used to trade time for comfort. 

Police detectives  investigated the incident and found nothing worthy of 
pursuit. Johnson saw  dollars worthy of pursuit, and Melody assists him. 

Those nipping  at cryonics always stop after a while. Either they get tired 
of it or they  die. 

Robert  Ettinger




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