CryoNet #32769 - #32770

CryoNet - Mon 16 Aug 2010

    #32769: Re: Oberon's proposal to stimulate cryonics research [David Stodolsky]
    #32770: Re: CryoNet #32768 [Snewellinstitute]

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Message #32769
Subject: Re: Oberon's proposal to stimulate cryonics research
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:32:34 +0200
References: <[email protected]>

On 15 Aug 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> "There is one Canadian billionaire signed up for cryonics, but who is otherwise not active in funding research, and there are as yet no American billionaires that are interested. All this could change once the concept has been proven to work."
> 
Past cultivation of rich individuals hasn't led to positive results. 

We should keep in mind that even if cryonics is proven to work in humans, there will still be about a third of persons in the general population that will oppose it. 

> 
> Finally, no matter how much money is available, there are only a tiny handful of trained people interested in the question.  If the 2,000 existing cryonics organization members were mostly scientists, maybe things would go faster. Having fewer than twenty scientists involved in looking at these ideas means both not enough people to do the work and, more importantly, not enough different brains to contribute new ideas for the hundreds of problems which will need solutions.
> 
> A lot of money, all by itself, is an insufficient motivator to solve the problem - and we don't even have that. 

This strikes me as another example of the 'not invented here' view that has crippled cryonics. If large amounts were available to fund research, the number of persons interested in the question would increase. I presume the Society for Cryobiology has more than twenty members. 

There are certainly thousands of social scientists that would be interested in investigating the social foundations of opposition to cryonics. An understanding of these issues would lead to a vast increase in membership and therefore the funds available for research.


dss


David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32770
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:46:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32768

Cryonet message 32768  
Following Oberon's proposal and  Bridge's discussion of "prioritas" 
We exist in a world of mortals.   
Even a famous speech by President  John F. Kennedy about the missiles of 
October in Cuba, where he says after Russia  backs down, that "we all life on 
one small planet, breath the same air and are  mortal."  
There are certain assumptions.  It will not change quickly or possibly  
even in a single generation for most cultures and peoples.  Everyone must die, 
is the assumption  enforced by an assumption that human beings understand 
all that is possible in  some certain areas of existential reality.   
The thing to remember about the  future is that if current technology 
evolution is any recent indication, then  the same nanotechnology that may 
explain the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth  influenced by a political religious 
conspiracy made by extra-terrestrials, so  also nanotechnology may give us 
the world of the brain eating zombies just as  easily.  Technology in Sci-Fi 
has me  promising my friends someday we would all talk on a communicator 
like Kirk did  on Star Trek and all my peers laughed at just how stupid I was 
in 1968.  Most of these people will be dying as is  their duty to their God. 
  We  are going to have trouble if we try to keep them from embracing their 
fate that  is promised to them by their God.   
We have to look at it like a  different kind of species from the 6 billion 
around us.  They are never going to hope for the  future we think might be 
there.  Actually I know it is more likely we are correct than the 
dogmatically  mortal believers in the supernatural magic.  As Isaac Asimov has 
observed, in most  pre-scientific cultures the performance of advanced scientific 
technology  operations is regarded as magic and the ones doing it are 
magicians, not cleaver  human scientists.  Therefore, one  thing to keep in mind is 
that our success is likely to cause the charge of  witchcraft against our 
laboratories and medical doctors.  
We should instead begin a new  approach to organization that assumes that 
the use of this technology solution  will be sabotaged constantly and we will 
be tripped up constantly if we do not  plan strategically expecting games 
of sabotage against our collective  industry.  They will want us to fail  and 
not get something they believe their God does not want any person to have,  
which is an escape of death that does not involve the authority of their  
universal truth of the Holy Ghost thingy.  Even though they can not really 
define what God is, they believe strongly  and it gives them comfort having 
faith is something emotional and not  fundamentally logical.   
My whole corporation was ended the  year that I recruited about 20 young 
adults with what for them is a relatively  cheap life-insurance/investment 
instrument buying them membership in a cryonics  program.  Their families said 
I did  something immoral in sales, offering them another idea than simply 
paying for a  funeral.  It was defined as wrong to  sell the idea of future 
possible reanimation by way of a relatively inexpensive  financial instrument 
if bought in an insurance contract at a younger age.  So you see, this 
business operation  which was a success for the future of these 20 clients doomed 
me to face  insolvency on charges from the voice of the "Holy Ghost" 
talking to Iowa families.   
One thing in Bridge's comment is  substantial to all sides: "By pulling  
out all the stops, expense be damned, and actually using these less toxic but  
pricey cryoprotective agents such as ectoin, DESO, and KF7G; fully 
reversible  liquid nitrogen cryopreservation of entire animals is IMHO quite 
possible right  now." So then we might study cost, supply and logistics to make a 
study of  options to purchase based on membership requests/demands and 
availability.  There in any business levels of  operations and services and this 
will be the same for this industry as with all  others.  But you have to 
develop a  good lexicon of terms to sell those levels and service options in 
understandable  ways to customers. 
Danila Medvedev is mentioned  in Cryonet 32732  by Rudi Hoffman concerning 
news about  Cryonics in Russia which is  providing liquid Nitrogen freeze of 
the head for less cost than any corporation  in North America can. We need 
Sales and  marketing business to support giving customers who have needs 
information about  options to purchase a contract of medical services in 
cryonics.   
But also, beyond that a key business-operation  technology available to us 
is investing in future technology development as a  resource.  This is why I 
am so  enthusiastic even though right now I have been defunded and 
denigrated as a  business executive.  There is always  possibility concerning the 
future.  It turns out technology is bigger than most of us guessed in 1968. So 
 what this is like is it is like planned use of different modes in time.  
If you freeze then you are suspended at  a molecular level compared to 
movement of molecules in things around you that  are in normal dynamics in linear 
time.  This is a kind of medical Triage. 
I have suggested seven levels of  service in Cryonics that will require 
service operation price targets.  These are as with all medicine to be  based 
on non-profit business operation costs. 
Level One: At the least we can  preserve DNA with the request so that in 
the future if and when technology and  economic means permit, then a person 
has the comfort of knowing an "identical  twin" of themselves will be born 
again to continue an essay on life as a human  being 
Level Two: In addition to  the DNA a "download" of all MRI and PET Scan or 
other brain and body data to  support a more full possible technology advent 
of the reanimation of the rebuild  of the deceased person. 
Level Three: If the finance  was in place and opportunity of procedure 
permits, then cryonics preservation of  the part of the body cells is kept so as 
to permit some kind of future possible  reanimation of the tissue of that 
person in the rebuild of the whole person to a  future technology in some 
part continued essay of existence as themselves in the  living world. 
Level Four: If the finance was in place  and opportunity of procedure 
permits, then cryonics preservation of the major  part of the brain is kept so as 
to permit some kind of future possible  reanimation of the brain tissue of 
that person in the rebuild of the whole  person to a future in some part 
continued essay of existence as themselves in  the living world. 
Level five:  If the finance was in place and  opportunity of procedures 
permit then the cryonics preservation of the whole  head of the person to a 
future in some part continued essay of existence as  themselves in the living 
world. 
Level Six:  If the finance was in place and  opportunity of procedures 
permit then the cryonics preservation of the whole  head and torso of the person 
to a future in some part continued essay of  existence as themselves in the 
living world. 
Level Seven:  If the finance was in place and  opportunity of procedures 
permit then the cryonics preservation of the whole  body of the person to a 
future in some part continued essay of existence as  themselves in the living 
world. 
In  summary, the question before us is if we actually take cryonics 
seriously as  saving lives, as a new dimension of medicine, then a triage seems to 
be in  order? 
If we  can develop a market service terminology to structure business 
operation costs  then we can start to make price levels for people seeking 
services... 
S. Newell, Ph.D. 


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