CryoNet #32785 - #32788

CryoNet - Sun 22 Aug 2010

    #32785: Re: CryoNet #32782 - #32784 [Chrissie de Rivaz]
    #32786: Re: #32782 [doctor Robert]
    #32787: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect" [David Stodolsky]
    #32788: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect" [John de Rivaz]

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Message #32785
From: "Chrissie de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32782 - #32784
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:22:46 +0100

> What's apparent: the group of cryonicists who are most likely interested 
> in an cultural change on a  grand scale consists of males who are more 
> than twice the number of females.
>
> What's needed: bring more females into the debate.
>
I'm a bit of a lurker on cryonet but always follow discussions. You suggest 
that material directed towards women and anti-aging might be a good idea. 
I'm a novelist ... I have sent out two proposals for novels (for women) with 
cryonics as theme and one suggestion for a book on the lines of 'Cryonics 
for Dummies'. No publisher or agent will touch either because
 A) they do not have a guaranteed market
B) because I'm not a well known footballer, chef or politician.

Chrissie de Rivaz

http://www.ChrissieLoveday.com
http://www.Rough-Clay.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Cultural Change With Comics
> > So a cultural change must diversify the media where women get their 
> > information about cryonics. Actually, there are way more females who are 
> > engaged in research about beauty than radical life extension. 
> > Nevertheless, the beauty industry is selling cosmetics with an anti 
> > aging effect. Those products sell not successful in all cases.
>
>del< 

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Message #32786
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:43:45 -0700
Subject: Re: #32782
From: doctor Robert <[email protected]>

--0016e6de04edfcebd0048e58f4ff

Cosmism, a philosophy of life based on the works  Hugo De Garis and offered
by dss in the above message, seems to me to be a very poor choice for
catagory shifting.  In this philosophy, de Garis in postulating millions of
deaths in a Terminator like scenario, projects and reverses his own fear of
death onto our machines.....Paranoid and a poor matrix in which to embed a
life affirming technology such as Cryonics. I think we ought not to be
suggesting it to the Chinese, instead we could rely on the state sponsored
atheism and the countries educated elites infatuation with technology to
carry us in that culture. Dr. Robert Newport

-- 
Dr Robert's Fine Art Studio
www.doctorobertsart.com
[email protected]

--0016e6de04edfcebd0048e58f4ff

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Message #32787
Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:21:48 +0200
References: <[email protected]>

On 21 Aug 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:

> 
> I wrote
> 
>> If the Chinese government ***sees it as*** 
>> being an opportunity to provide an alternative to religion
> 
> That is to say, if the Chinese government is motivated by a desire to provide an alternative to religion. It doesn't have to be correct in thinking that the two activities are in conflict. It doesn't even have to be correct in thinking that offering a cryonics option in China will stop people taking up religions that it has failed to suppress by violence. I suspect that it may prevent a few people at present who are undecided turning to religion, but whether it would be worth the effort if that is the sole objective, is anyone's guess.

Let us assume that the book is a best seller in China and someone in the Leadership thinks it would be a good way to counteract religious trends. All scientific analysis and all experience indicates that the effort would flop. The result would be that cryonics as a socially useful procedure would be discredited. 

Alternatively, assume that we collect some data and formulate a package that includes cryonics and does have a desired effect, from the standpoint of the Leadership. They could roll it out to a third of the World's population by decree, thus changing cryonics from a minor and expensive procedure to an accepted medical procedure benefiting from economies of scale. We aren't going to achieve this in the West anytime soon.


dss


> 
> Although I don't see cryonics and religion as being in opposition (as cryonics and life extension can't offer invulnerability, only indefinite lifespan), many people do.
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
> Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
> Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
> more
> 
> Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
> From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:09:45 +0200
> References: <[email protected]>
> <del>
> Cryonics is not an alternative to religion. 
> <del>

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32788
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:54:55 +0100

This assumes two things

1. a package that **includes** cryonics
2. that it is accepted by the population

"the package" would have to contain a lot of material that is pertinent to the Chinese situation and the ruling party's ideology. I don't see how this could be created except by Chinese academicians.

On the basis that the Chinese ideology still owes a lot to the Communist Party, it would seem sensible to listen to the views of a spokesman for the Communist Party. This is from Radio Moscow in the 1980s:
http://www.cryonics.org/media/moscow1.htm
http://www.cryonics.org/media/moscow2.htm
http://www.cryonics.org/media/moscow3.htm
These broadcasts rather suggest that although the Communists seek to extend the "lifespan of the species as a whole" (by which I think they mean average lifespan) and are willing to consider researching anti-oxidants and so on, they regard cryopreservation as being specific to individuals and therefore not worthy of consideration. 

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:21:48 +0200
References: <[email protected]>
<del>
Alternatively, assume that we collect some data and formulate a package that 
includes cryonics and does have a desired effect, from the standpoint of the 
Leadership. They could roll it out to a third of the World's population by 
decree, thus changing cryonics from a minor and expensive procedure to an 
accepted medical procedure benefiting from economies of scale. We aren't going 
to achieve this in the West anytime soon.


dss
<del>

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