CryoNet #32782 - #32784

CryoNet - Sat 21 Aug 2010

    #32782: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect" [David Stodolsky]
    #32783: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect" [John de Rivaz]
    #32784: Cultural Change With Comics [robomoon]

Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32782%2D32784

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe
To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to:
    [email protected]
from the same address to which you are aubscribed.
Send questions, comments, or feedback to [email protected]
with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32782
Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:09:45 +0200
References: <[email protected]>

On 20 Aug 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> 
> Surely the publication of the Chinese translation of The Prospect of 
> Immortality is the first step, which has just been taken. They may well be 
> free media publicity surrounding it. If the Chinese government sees it as 
> being an opportunity to provide an alternative to religion, then they may 
> well provide funding to appropriate Chinese individuals and organisations to 
> advance the concept.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
> Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
> Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
> more
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> <del>
> Potentially, this could mean an opening for cryonics. Administration of the 
> Badger Survey in China would be a first step.
> 
> 
> dss


Cryonics is not an alternative to religion. It is a technique for modification of bodies. Religions use all kinds of techniques, such as baptism, circumcision, scarification, mummification, etc. Some feel cryonics should be promoted as a medical intervention. A medical intervention is not a religion or an alternative to a religion. This view is a logical error called a category mistake. "A category mistake, or category error, is a semantic or ontological error by which a property is ascribed to a thing that could not possibly have that property" (Wikipedia).

In general, a religion is a "set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe" (Wikipedia). Religions as life philosophies generally invoke supernatural explanations. So, if anything, they are likely to be hostile to cryonics.

We know that people of many different religious beliefs have chosen cryonics. However, the evidence is that certain religious orientations are hostile to cryonics and others are positive toward it. There are life philosophies that support cryonics as an inherent part of their belief system, such as Cosmism, Extropianism, etc.

So, this relates to what I have called the packaging problem: Cryonics can't be marketed independently, since it doesn't provide what people need: A "set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe". This logical mistake is a barrier to the growth and survival of the cryonics movement. The idea that a new life philosophy incorporating cryonics will suddenly spring forth in the minds of the Chinese Leadership is just as realistic as the idea that it would happen in the West. So far we have seen at least two dramatic failures along these lines: CryoCare and Extropianism. If this is any guide, then even if the Leadership does try to use cryonics as an alternative to religion, it will not work and the result will be that cryonics will be discredited. Before the Ch
 inese Leadership can effectively promote cryonics, it has to be packaged properly. I guess that some form of Cosmism would best fit in with current social and political developments in China. However, without some solid data, it isn't possible to say much about this.


dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32782

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32783
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:51:55 +0100

I wrote

> If the Chinese government ***sees it as*** 
> being an opportunity to provide an alternative to religion

That is to say, if the Chinese government is motivated by a desire to provide an alternative to religion. It doesn't have to be correct in thinking that the two activities are in conflict. It doesn't even have to be correct in thinking that offering a cryonics option in China will stop people taking up religions that it has failed to suppress by violence. I suspect that it may prevent a few people at present who are undecided turning to religion, but whether it would be worth the effort if that is the sole objective, is anyone's guess.

Although I don't see cryonics and religion as being in opposition (as cryonics and life extension can't offer invulnerability, only indefinite lifespan), many people do.

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

Subject: Re: Chinese translation of "Prospect"
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:09:45 +0200
References: <[email protected]>
<del>
Cryonics is not an alternative to religion. 
<del>

 Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32783

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32784
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:23:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Cultural Change With Comics

What's apparent: the group of cryonicists who are most likely interested in an cultural change on a  grand scale consists of males who are more than twice the number of females.

What's needed: bring more females into the debate.

So a cultural change must diversify the media where women get their information about cryonics. Actually, there are way more females who are engaged in research about beauty than radical life extension. Nevertheless, the beauty industry is selling cosmetics with an anti aging effect. Those products sell not successful in all cases.

Computers make it possible to create new media wherever needed. Wouldn't be a surprise for me when I learned that even books are written by the help of computers, would it? So let's begin with the women who are no teenagers anymore. Are they reading books about aging? Yes, at least my wife does while trying to convince me too that the development of anti aging pharmaceutics is way better for radical life extension than what she thinks a scam: cryonics.

It may be interesting to find new media containing information about anti aging. The more there are, the more woman will be able to think about aging, thus, to broaden their knowledge about life extension. Are there comics containing something about anti aging too?

Yesterday, my stepson and I watched Futurama, a cartoon TV series. There was a dog who went to see his lost owner in a cryostat, here's the http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Applied_Cryogenics company. Next to books and TV cartoons, are there comics made for readers who are female and older than teenagers? I wonder if there are such comics containing funny stuff about something like the above link too.

//


-- 
Der Newskiosk
Von Sommerloch keine Spur: Alle Top-News der groBen Tageszeitungen aus Wirtschaft, Politik, Sport, Lifestyle und mehr im News-Kiosk auf arcor.de.
http://www.arcor.de/rd/footer.newskiosk

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32784

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************