CryoNet #32900 - #32902

CryoNet - Mon 4 Oct 2010

    #32900: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Upload_as_flowing_process_/_Upload_als_flie=DF... [Jens Rabis]
    #32901: RE: Reasons Why Uploading Is Unlikely, Ever [Keith Henson]
    #32902: Re: CryoNet #32899 [Mike Perry]

Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32900%2D32902

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe
To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to:
    [email protected]
from the same address to which you are aubscribed.
Send questions, comments, or feedback to [email protected]
with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line.

Since all CryoNet messages are archived and accessible via WWW,
including search engines, make certain that your postings
reflect how you want the world to see you.

To retrieve past messages, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the message numbers in the subject line.
(Message 0003 describes the advanced syntax.)
You also can retrieve them via the CryoNet web page at URL:
    http://www.cryonet.org/

For administrative or other questions/suggestions, send email
to me at "[email protected]" with "cryonics" in the subject line.
    - Kevin Q. Brown


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32900
From: "Jens Rabis" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Upload_as_flowing_process_/_Upload_als_flie=DF...
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:01:03 +0200

Hi cryonauten,

.. my feeling tells me:
The upload must be a result of a "flowing" process. A "flowing" process only
works on living (!) Brain, which communicates with an "empty" computer
brain.
The living brain dive into the virtual world. Eventually, it will not return
... then it is time to cut the connecting lines.
A computer simulation of a frozen brain, which was destroyed for this is for
me a copy.

***

.. mein Gefuhl sagt mir:
Der Upload muss ein Ergebniss eines flieBenden Prozesses sein. Ein
flieBender Prozess funktioniert nur am lebenden(!) Gehirn, welches sich mit
einem ,leerem" Computerhirn kommuniziert. 
Das lebende Gehirn taucht langsam in die virtuelle Welt ein. Irgendwann will
es nicht mehr zuruck ... dann ist es Zeit die Verbindungsleitungen
durchzuschneiden.
Eine Computer-Simulation eines gefrorenen Gehirns, welches dafur zerstort
wurde, ist fur mich eine Kopie.


Best greetings
Cryoson Jens
Germany-Berlin

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32900

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32901
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 08:14:29 -0700
Subject: RE: Reasons Why Uploading Is Unlikely, Ever
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 2:00 AM, CryoNet Jonano  <[email protected]>> wrote:

> Uploading technologies will be very easy in  the future, people will be
> able to change their identity, memory or  personality as easy as
> changing a radio channel.

I would suggest great caution, automatic reversions, and careful
assistance of friends if you want to try this.  Marvin Minsky
discusses the dangers of messing with your mind this way in _Society
of Mind_.  The chances seem high that "you" would rapidly be lost.

I think technology will eventually allow uploading.  That doesn't mean
it is necessarily a good idea.  However, I think we are already on the
slippery slope.  I suspect that brain-machine interfaces will be like
cell phones.  You don't have to have a cell phone but they _seem_ so
useful that practically everyone does.  I suspect a person without one
would be at a disadvantage in getting a job nowadays.

The same may be true of interfaces.  From there to uploading, side
loading and backups is just a matter of time, and not much time at
that.

> And I think it's a  good thing for cryonics patients, if we know alot
> about identities, and how  to manage them, we will do less errors in
> correcting & repairing them,  but before we need to be able to create
> them easily. Maybe in about 1000  years, not 200 years from now.

I don't think you are up on where we are on the accelerating
technologies curve.  It seems likely that whatever the limits of
technology are, we will reach them well before the end of this
century.

> We will also be able to select and  experience alot of pre configured
> emotions that we will be inserted in our  brain and interact with the
> personality that we choose. We will have a  better liberty that way.
>
> The experience industry will be large and  flourishing. We will
> probably lost ourselves in it. We will control alot  more than today
> all identities, personalities changing and memory  management.
>
> I'm not expert but I love to  speculate.

I have been exposed to elements of this for most of my life and
intensely since the late 1970s.  It's slowly changed from gee whiz to
"my ghod what have we gotten into?"

Perhaps the scariest thing is the mismatch between human and machine
speeds.  Year ago there was a computer virus that spread with a
doubling time of 8.5 seconds.  If infected all possible hosts before
human had a chance to figure out what was going on.

More recently there was the computer mediated thousand point flash
drop in the stock market.

Sigh.  It could be we will be forced to upload just to keep up.

Keith

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32901

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32902
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 23:43:44 -0700
From: Mike Perry <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32899
References: <[email protected]>

>Message #32899
>From: [email protected]
>Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:48:51 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: various
>
>[...]
>Mike Perry talks about a distinction between a description and an ongoing
>process. I think this is a false distinction. One can describe a painting,
>and  one can also describe a movie.

I have to say, I don't get it. There is a world of difference between 
interacting with a robot and, say, looking at a fixed record of some 
sort. Yes, you can describe a movie, but a movie can't carry on a 
conversation, can't respond to your input in a variable way, it only 
runs through a fixed sequence of "moves"--the same each time you run 
it. It is like a fixed description, but an interacting robot is a world apart.

Mike

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32902

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************