CryoNet #33279 - #33282

CryoNet - Fri 28 Jan 2011

    #33279: Re: Two professors [=?UTF-8?Q?Jonathan_Despr=C3=A9s?=]
    #33280: Actuarial Tables [M2darwin]
    #33281: again, religiosity and target groups [Ettinger]
    #33282: Survival of the fittest, Message # [Raphael T. Haftka]

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Message #33279
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:05:41 +0100
Subject: Re: Two professors
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jonathan_Despr=C3=A9s?= <[email protected]>

1) Social psychologists are professionals and as it always should be
for professional, they should be good for cryonics, for us.
2) I have already experienced positive feedbacks about being in the
future, cryopreserved, and it's only the begining.
3) "Life made easy" should be our slogan.
4) Alcor should become more democratic and not appearing "sect" anymore.
5) We should have 2 standby(ies?) for Alcor members, one for testing,
one for going real and fast.
6) Cryonics need creativity and more new ideas on the technical side.

I hope the best for cryonics in the future,

--Jon

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Message #33280
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 06:07:30 EST
Subject: Actuarial Tables

Content-Language: en

 
In a message dated 1/27/2011 2:02:45 A.M. Pacific Standard  Time, 
[email protected] writes:
 
The most striking  thing clearly is the steady  reduction in mortality  
rate with  advancing age. A man of 80 can only expect about 7.28 years more, 
but if  he reaches 90 he still can expect another 3.84 years. Escape  
velocity, anyone?



MD: Ah, I wish! What is actually going on here is  interesting, but alas 
doesn't portend immortality, or a pathway to it. The  folks who live to be 
centenarians and super-centenarians are extraordinary  people who represent the 
extreme of a continuum of long-lived people. They  have a number of things 
in common, including lower than average growth  hormone levels, high HDLs, 
superior protection against cancer, and very  likely, genes that protect 
against obesity and minimize free radical injury.  There are undoubtedly other 
biological and environmental factors, but these  are the things that 
currently stand out. Interestingly, it is possible to sort  those who will not live 
past 100 from those who will with a fair degree of  precision by looking at 
their medical histories and cognitive functioning.  Super-centenarians, in 
particular, experience 'low inflammation aging' and  virtually never suffer 
from degenerative disease until well into their 90s, or  beyond. They 
similarly remain cognitively intact into their 90s, and in this  respect, men do 
much better than women! That's encouraging and useful  information for 
gerontologists.
 
However, it is important to understand that even these  super-agers are 
biologically doomed - for now. Perhaps one of the few redeeming benefits of the 
atmospheric  testing of atomic weapons during the 1950s and '60s is that it 
resulted in a  large pulse of atmospheric 14C, which subsequently found its 
way  into developing fetuses undergoing gestation at this time. This  
peculiarity was first applied to  carbon dating of lens crystallins  proteins by 
comparing the 14C concentration of the lens crystallins  to the "bomb pulse'
 of 14C release that occurred during the era of  atmospheric nuclear 
weapons testing.  As it turns out, 14C  concentrations fluctuated distinctively 
year by year with the number of open  air tests, and this has allowed for 
precision dating of the crystallin  proteins. The results of these studies have 
proved conclusively that almost  all lens crystallins are elaborated during 
fetal development, with only  miniscule (and steadily decreasing) additional 
synthesis over the course of  life.(Lynnerup N, Kjeldsen H,  Heegaard S, 
Jacobsen C, Heinemeier J (2008) Radiocarbon Dating of the Human  Eye Lens 
Crystallines Reveal Proteins without Carbon Turnover throughout Life.  PLoS ONE 
3(1): e1529. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0001529.) This really  isn't 
surprising, and it confirms what many ophthalmologists and  gerontologists had long 
suspected. However, this technique has also been applied to the nuclear DNA 
of brain  neurons, with careful control for local (i.e., regional  
geographical) variations in 14C levels, as well as study good  design to exclude any 
possible contribution to the 14C of neuronal  DNA via methylation. The result 
of this study has demonstrated conclusively  that there is essentially no 
neuronal  cell division in the cerebral cortex of humans after the perinatal  
period.  (Spalding KL, Bhardwaj RD, Buchholz BA, Druid H, Frisen  J. (2005) 
Retrospective birth dating of cells in humans. Cell.  122:133-43.) In the 
case of both neurons and glial cells, what we are  born with is all that we 
will have for the remainder of our lives._[1]_ 
(aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1)   While neuron components such as cell membranes, organelles, and 
vesicles  undergo dynamic molecular turnover, neuronal and most glial cell 
DNA remain  atomically unaltered throughout life! The atoms in your brain DNA 
you are born  with, are the atoms you will die (or be cryopreserved  with).
 
This has interesting implications, because gray matter neuron loss  is 
virtually linear with age, and continuous from age 2 throughout life. White  
matter losses are also linear, but begin later in life. This makes sense when  
considered in the context of the amount of DNA damage per cell per day which 
 has been estimated at ~ 1 million molecular lesions daily! (Lodish H, Berk 
A, Matsudaira P, Kaiser CA,  Krieger M, Scott MP, Zipursky SL, Darnell J. 
(2004). Molecular Biology of the  Cell, p963. WH Freeman: New York, NY. 5th 
ed.) Super-centenarians also  experience this relentless loss of gray and 
white matter, but at a much slower  rate. This may be due to better protection 
against DNA damage, better DNA  repair, or both. But, in any event, it seems 
that the brain (and a number of  other vital structures and tissues), have 
no built-in replacement programs;  and this is confirmed by the absence of 
evidence of DNA methlyation, as  well (at least in us humans). So, barring 
the advent of fairly sophisticated brain  rejuvenation technology, we will 
eventually end up as neurological Struldbrugs,  since we are losing neurons 
with each passing day - and at an  astonishing (and to me, very disconcerting) 
rate.  

Yet another reason why cryonics is likely to be  essential for many of us 
who may not make it to such definitive rejuvenation  technologies.
 
Mike  Darwin
 

 
____________________________________





 
 
_[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1)  By  contrast, the average 
age of non-epithelial intestinal cell nuclear DNA is  ~15.9 years and 
skeletal muscle DNA was found to have an average age of 15.1  years. The mean age 
of cerebrocortical   and cerebellar gray-matter DNA was only 2.9 years 
younger than the  person. The gray matter of the occipital cortex demonstrated 
the most turnover  with non-neuronal DNA being ~10 years younger than the  
person.



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Message #33281
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 06:50:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: again, religiosity and target groups

DSS wrote in part:
 

>My  proposal is not to change public attitudes, but to identify or create 
a  subculture with more >positive attitudes. I also assume a repackaging of  
cryonics to make it more attractive and less >conomically demanding.  


and:

>All surveys show that religiosity is inversely  related to positive views 
toward cryonics / life-extension.
 
First, one cannot rely on self reports of attitudes or  motivations. It is 
very clear that the primary obstacle to acceptance of  cryonics is just 
cultural inertia or cultural legacy, with  no quick and  effective antidotes on 
the horizon. 
 
Second, religion and religiosity are complicated, and similar  threads 
appear in "religions" and in attitudes and organizations of many kinds.  For 
example, mutual help and networking are prominent in fraternal  organizations, 
political parties, and many other associations. 
 
Third, yet again, both relative and absolute numbers of  favorably inclined 
people are so small that it does not seem economically  possible to 
"target" any particular group such as computer people or  Libertarians. The only 
approaches that have worked are (a) putting the focus on  your own family and 
friends, and (b) using the shotgun and extremely cheap media  outlets, 
primarily our web site. 
 
Finally, once more, don't let the possibility of something  better distract 
from something limited but still good, which we already have. We  need 
Indians, not chiefs. Do what you KNOW works, even if it only works a  little. 
Slowly walkee catchee monkey. 
 
Robert Ettinger



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Message #33282
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:54:15 -0500
From: "Raphael T. Haftka" <[email protected]>
Subject: Survival of the fittest, Message #
References: <[email protected]>

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