CryoNet #33283 - #33286

CryoNet - Sat 29 Jan 2011

    #33283: Re: again, religiosity and target groups [Luke Parrish]
    #33284: Re: CryoNet #33279 - #33282 [Eisab]
    #33285: actuarial interpretation [Ettinger]
    #33286: slowly walkee...like a glacier [un person]

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Message #33283
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:11:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Luke Parrish <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: again, religiosity and target groups

----- Original Message ----
> Message  #33281
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011  06:50:58 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: again, religiosity and target groups

> First,  one cannot rely on self reports of attitudes or  motivations. It is 
> very clear that the primary obstacle to acceptance of  cryonics is just 
> cultural inertia or cultural legacy, with  no quick and  effective  antidotes 
> on the horizon. 

I don't think any one thing can overcome this problem quickly and effectively. 
But a combination of things may.

> Second, religion and religiosity are  complicated, and similar  threads 
> appear in "religions" and in  attitudes and organizations of many kinds.  For 
> example, mutual help  and networking are prominent in fraternal 
> organizations, political  parties, and many other associations. 

Agreed. Clubs, hangouts, lodges, bars, political parties, actual parties,
sporting events, etc. are as much an expression of the human instinct for tribal
bonding as churches. Generally speaking, people desire to go places and have
fun together. Churches (at least the successful ones) recognize this need in
the form of music and public speaking.

> Third, yet again, both relative  and absolute numbers of  favorably inclined 
> people are so small that it  does not seem economically  possible to 
> "target" any particular group  such as computer people or  Libertarians. The 
> only approaches that have  worked are (a) putting the focus on  your own
> family and friends, and  (b) using the shotgun and extremely cheap media 
> outlets, primarily our  web site. 

I disagree, new technologies make targeted advertising cheaper and more 
effective than ever. Take Google Adwords, for example.

> Finally, once more, don't let the possibility of  something  better distract 
> from something limited but still good, which  we already have. We  need 
> Indians, not chiefs. Do what you KNOW works,  even if it only works a 
> little. Slowly walkee catchee monkey. 

Trying something new does not necessarily mean giving up on what you are
already doing. For example, nobody is suggesting deleting the CI website. If
anything, it should be upgraded and promoted.

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Message #33284
From: "Eisab" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #33279 - #33282
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:21:44 -0500

How do they know it is the same C14?  Carbon-14 has a half-life of 5730 
years. I probably incorporating C14 as I sit here. The lens protein may not 
change but the carbon in the protein might be.

Basie 

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Message #33285
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:09:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: actuarial interpretation

I had written that, according to Social Security figures, mortality rates  
decline with advancing years, perhaps offering a glimmer of hope for "escape 
 velocity" for some now living. Mike Darwin responded with several  
negatives, including the fact that, for a specific individual, additional  
information could modify the numbers. 
 
Most of what he says is correct, but more or less irrelevant. Naturally you 
 will get better guesses if you know more about the person and if the 
database  reflects such variables. But the missing relevant information includes 
both  positives and negatives. For example, I had an uncle who lived to 93 
despite  many years of congestive heart failure. Also, I take a lot of 
supplements, some  of which may be useful and none of which, after many years, 
appear to pose a  threat. Also, I have reached my present age despite many 
episodes--illnesses and  traumas--that almost killed me and that should (?) have 
weakened me.
 
I am not an optimist for the short term and don't expect to reach the  
upper nineties. But a little speculation can be amusing. 
 
Robert Ettinger
 

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Message #33286
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:04:05 -0800 (PST)
From: un person <[email protected]>
Subject: slowly walkee...like a glacier

[email protected] wrote:
"Subject: again, religiosity and target groups
  
"First, one cannot rely on self reports of attitudes
 or  motivations. "



Yes! This fact should be the cornerstone of all cryonics activism. The vast majority of human behavior is guided by some sort of psychobiological 'dark matter.'
Not yet understood by science. We can put labels on these ideas, but we really have little understanding of the nuts and bolts aspects of it.

So these naive ideas of 'rational discussions' to get more members is a joke.

ettinger wrote:
"It is very clear that the primary obstacle to acceptance of 
 cryonics is just cultural inertia or cultural legacy, with  no quick
and  effective antidotes on  the horizon. "



JUST culture? Culture is HUGE. It dominates human society. Human behavior is dominated by culture. What we are trying to do here is similar to what scientists have done by inserting electrodes into the brains of living cockroaches and controlling them by sending electrical impulses into their brains. This of course is impossible for us to do with humans. But that is pretty much what it would take to be able to get most humans to sign up for cryonics. Culture precludes them from signing up, at least cryonics is presently presented.

If we really want to grow cryonics, we have to work within the system, within the culture, and that means using religion.


ettinger wrote:  
"Third, yet again, both relative and absolute numbers
of  favorably inclined people are so small that it does not seem
 economically  possible to  "target" any particular group such as computer people or  Libertarians. "



Right. So why swim in the kiddie wading pool? Swim with the big kids.


ettinger wrote:
"The only approaches that have worked are (a) putting the focus
 on  your own family and f riends, and (b) using the shotgun and extremely cheap media  outlets, 
primarily our web site."


Hasn't worked very well. The only objectively viable path to immortality, the most audacious idea in history, and after 40 years, we have maybe 1000 signed up members? And let's be honest--how many members eventually drop out? How much churn is there? Substantial, I would guess. 

Not much of a showing for over 40 years.....



ettinger wrote:  
"Finally, once more, don't let the possibility of
 something  better distract 
 from something limited but still good, which we already
 have. "



I cannot disagree with that.


ettinger wrote:
" Slowly walkee catchee monkey. "


Very very very slowly, apparently....


Luke Parrish wrote:
"Clubs, hangouts, lodges, bars, political parties, actual parties,
sporting events, etc. are as much an expression of the human instinct for tribal bonding as churches. Generally speaking, people desire to go places and have fun together. "


OK, Luke, here is your first assignment as a cryonics activist: go dress up like a woman. Go whole hog! A wig, makeup, a sexy dress. But don't be too convincing, though. Leave some five oclock shadow. Then get yerself down to the roughest looking gay leather bar in town. Fraternize! Have fun with the other patrons. Get back to us with your adventures!

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