CryoNet #33482 - #33499
CryoNet <[email protected]> 16 Mar 2011 09:00:01 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.science.cryogenics |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
CryoNet - Wed 16 Mar 2011
#33482: Re: Behind the scenes suppression of free speech? [John de Rivaz]
#33483: MYOB FD [M2darwin]
#33484: Cryonet (Rothblatt) reply to Ettinger's postings 33465 & 3346... [Loraine Rhodes]
#33485: Re: Please don't kill CryoNet [David Stodolsky]
#33486: Thank you for hosting Cryonet, Kevin, VIRTUAL PLAQUE PRESENTA... [Rudi Hoffman]
#33487: Re: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011 [Robin Helweg-Larsen]
#33488: Re: CryoNet #33477 - #33481 [Freeposity]
#33489: cryonics [Fred Chamberlain]
#33490: CryoNet - Fred and Linda and Terasem [Peter Voss]
#33491: Kevin Brown? [david pizer]
#33492: Re: Kevin Brown? [david pizer] [Mathew Sullivan]
#33493: Thanks to Kevin and John [York W. &/or Lois G. Porter]
#33494: CryoNet to enter stasis [Daniel Crevier]
#33495: Cryonet:: new subdomain.... [Gary Kline]
#33496: Who Is To Blame [Finance Department]
#33497: Thank you and Goodbye [marta sandberg]
#33498: Cryonicist.com could become the next Cryonet [Jonathan Despres]
#33499: continuing threads to New Cryonet [John de Rivaz]
Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33482%2D33499
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Message #33482
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Behind the scenes suppression of free speech?
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:07:12 -0000
The method of running a Yahoo Group as suggested by FD below would be
irrational, and it is not how New Cryonet would be run.
It would be irrational for the following reason:
If someone posted a message with which the moderators did not agree and the
moderators deleted it, then he would merely post it somewhere else. If on
the other hand the moderators let it though, then they (or anyone else)
could say why they disagreed.
Of course there are some messages, such as those about seeking money from
cryonicists that may otherwise go to their cryonics service providers, or
personal name calling or abuse, that may need editing or deleting. Oddly
enough, editing out name calling may often strengthen the actual content of
a message if it has some merit in the first place.
As to advertisements on Yahoo, that is how it is funded. It is easy enough
not to read them.
--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more
----- Original Message -----
From: CryoNet
Message #33481
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 01:51:56 -0500
Subject: Behind the scenes suppression of free speech?
From: Finance Department <[email protected]>
<del>
An advertisement-laden
Yahoo Group where dictatorial moderation is promised (Definition of
moderation: The censorship of material the dictator or a clique of same,
personally disagrees with).
<del>
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33482
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #33483
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:48:35 EDT
Subject: MYOB FD
FD writes:
"Oh OK, given the possibility there was no such outside influence, then the
blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the forum owners, acting
irresponsibly to deter/disallow free speech. I, though, smell a rat in the
background."
You know FD, it would make life so much easier for you, and everyone else,
if you would just ASK the question, instead of toiling and bubbling away
at (usually) half-baked, and also typically completely incorrect "secret
"conspiracy theories.
If you want to blame someone for the demise of Cryonet, well then by all
means blame ME. I'm happy to shoulder the full responsibility, even though
that is hardly the truth. What is the truth, is that I am the person most
immediately responsible for Kevin deciding to act. As to a conspiracy, well,
before I contacted Kevin a few days ago, we had had no contact for years -
probably onto ten years, or more. I wrote to Kevin telling him what I
thought of un-moderated list serves, but more particularly, what I know to be
the damaging and self destructive effect of hosting disturbed or malicious
people who want to damage or destroy cryonics using cryonicists themselves as
the stalking horses and whipping boys.
If you go to this article on Chronosphere _http://chronop
ause.com/index.php/2011/03/14/were-not-in-kansas-anymore-a-personal-meditation-on-the-consequen
ces-of-increasing-social-acceptance-for-contra-cultural-undertakings/_
(http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/03/14/were-not-in-kansas-anymore-a-persona
l-meditation-on-the-consequences-of-increasing-social-acceptance-for-contra-
cultural-undertakings/) and scroll down to the section entitled "Self
Defense 101" you will see virtually the full text of the letter I most
recently sent to Kevin. I would add that it has been edited for grammar and
expanded upon slightly, but for all intents and purposes, it is the same letter
he received. If you want to see my other correspondence to Kevin, just ask,
and I'll post it here, or send it to you personally.
Many people were copied on this material and provided input. Most will see
these remarks here, and do what they choose in terms of disclosing their
input - or not. I will say there was a unanimous (100%) consensus that
hostile maniacs or (worse still) sane people, out to harm cryonics do not belong
on list serves run by and for cryonicists. The Internet is free, free,
free and they are free to set up their soap box on any of the near infinity of
virtual sidewalks out there. WE have no obligation to cater a party for
them while they go at slashing our throats.
Beware that I am not speaking merely of critics here, but rather of people
who have crossed the line from the use of dialogue, to the use of force
and/or fraud in their attempts to "change" cryonics.
Also beware that you are not a cryonicist. That is no sin, but neither is
it a virtue, and what it means, as well it should, is that you have
absolutely no just voice in this matter at all. NONE. You have no loyalty to the
patients in storage and, honestly, very little to no committment to your own
long term survival: and yes, that does set you apart from us - literally
eons in time and light years apart from those of us who are, in fact,
cryonicists.
I have been in dialogue with you, on and off for years; in candid
dialogue, so you cannot help but be aware of how frustrated, disgusted and
despairing I am at the state cryonics is currently in. And by the same token you
must also know that despite those terrible feelings, and the accompanying
despair I remained signed up. I didn't walk away from myself, or from the
patients now in cryopreservation - a number of whom I rendered into that state
with my own heart, hands and mind fully engaged and committed to their
survival.
You have ranted and raved on Cold Filter for years - doing some tiny
measure of good, and occasionally (very rarely) getting it right in your
speculations. But mostly you've done nothing. And if you continue in that mode you
will, in the fullness of time, BE nothing. People willing to accept that
are not cryonicists, and that's fine. Fine that is, until they wander into
our environs and begin telling, or trying to tell us, what to do. Please to
understand YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT. Cold Filter is run by a
non-cryonicist - tell him anything you like, and speculate all you want. But Cryonet is
a time-honored institution we cryonicists created: Kevin Brown by
establishing it, and then all the rest of us who poured our hearts, our ideas and
our sweat, into filling it with content to the end of SAVING OUR OWN LIVES
AND THOSE OF OUR COMRADES.
Here's my final advice to you on this matter, and it comes down from a
wiser man than me: Get off your ass and go see, and go meet and go talk to all
of the people in cryonics you have such grand and kooky ideas about. Do
what any competent scientist, business man, explorer, or Finance Director
does, and that's to get the facts. In this case, it just so happens that the
bandwidth of the Internet, vast as it is, is still too pitifully small to
provide the information that you, or anyone else really needs to understand
the interpersonal mechanics, politics, and "inner workings" of cryonics. That
doesn't mean that these things are in way deliberately hidden, but it does
imply that you are too lazy to go and discover them.
Mike Darwin
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Message #33484
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:17:27 -0400
Subject: Cryonet (Rothblatt) reply to Ettinger's postings 33465 & 3346...
From: Loraine Rhodes <[email protected]>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--B_3383021850_694912
Content-type: text/plain;
Dear CryoNet Rep;
Response to Bob Ettinger (Posting # s 33465 & 33468 on 3/11/11) from Martine
Rothblatt:
Terasem is the collective consciousness of humanity; millions are actively
involved.
Uploading is not nonsense because it is empirical, materialist science, pure
& simple.
If thoughts are real -- duh -- then uploading is real. Romans told Jesus
people didn't want
radical change. Romans were wrong. Jesus won. So will Terasem. Cryonics is
the best
data storage device for mind files & embedded mind ware available.
Thank you for posting the response above.
Loraine J. Rhodes
Legal Research/HR Manager
Terasem Movement, Inc.
201 Oak Street
Melbourne Beach, FL 32951
PH: 321-676-3690 ext. 100
FAX: 321-676-3691
--B_3383021850_694912
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Message #33485
Subject: Re: Please don't kill CryoNet
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:57:07 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
On 15 Mar 2011, at 10:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> Kevin Q. Brown announced in Message #33476 that CryoNet will end on
> March 17, 2011. I want to say this is a very sad decision and I exhort
> him to change his mind. Since 1996, CryoNet has been a daily fixture
> in my life, and no other cryonics forum comes close for news and
> discussion on the topic. In my opinion, the quality of postings is
> almost as good now as when I first joined. Yes, there is also garbage,
> but not the "zombie hordes" of trolls and spammers that would justify
> shutting the whole thing down. I think the rating system works pretty
> well, too, though it has been abused on occasion.
The rating system was an ad hoc approach to moderation that never really functioned, primarily because it wasn't used much.
> Indeed everything
> works surprisingly well, given how open it is. And the cryonics
> community needs a place for us to come together openly.
The List could be continued in almost the same format by switching it over to a standard mailing list manager. The modern ones provide adequate controls for abusive behavior and require little work by the moderator. Quality would increase with such a switch
If Kevin isn't interested in moderating, then a moderation team could be set up. I volunteer to help. CryoNet is just about the only open source of news and views available at this time on cryonics issues.
dss
David Stodolsky
[email protected] Skype/Twitter: davidstodolsky
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33485
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #33486
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:13:59 -0400
Subject: Thank you for hosting Cryonet, Kevin, VIRTUAL PLAQUE PRESENTA...
From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>
--20cf303bf95820b50f049e860a7b
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:26 AM
Subject: Thank you for hosting Cryonet, Kevin, VIRTUAL PLAQUE PRESENTA...
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Hello, Kevin,
OMG! I am trying to determine how life will be without Cryonet...the
rants...the endless cycles of handwaving...and even the occasional REALLY
worthwhile post...
Will life be the same?
Probably not.
This message is to GENUINELY and SINCERELY THANK YOU for hosting Cryonet all
these decades.
There are other cryo boards...but I don't like them as well for various
reasons.
So, while I would like to convince you to continue on as quiet host, I
understand if you need to move on with the next phase of your life.
The rest of us will have to get on with ours.
But we should have some ceremony, or at least some appreciative thank you
type posts, to mark the passing of this venerable institution called
cryonet.
I am perhaps hoping that you may change your mind and continue to host, or
perhaps someone else without an agenda can take over.
So, on behalf of at least some of the participants on cryonet, Kevin, may I
present this VIRTUAL PLAQUE.
"TO KEVIN Q. BROWN:
FOR PROVIDING AN INVALUABLE SERVICE TO THE WHOLE OF THE EMERGING CRYONICS
COMMUNITY--
FOR ENABLING A FORUM FOR SHARING, DISCUSSION, GROWTH, RANTS, AS WELL AS SOME
EXAMPLES OF SOME OF THE BEST THINKING ANYWHERE--
FOR PROVIDING REASONABLE PEOPLE WITH A VIRTUAL WATER COOLER TO MEET--
FOR DISPLAYING GREAT WISDOM AND PATIENCE IN THE FACE OF THE OCCASIONAL
CONTROVERSY--
BE IT KNOWN TO ONE AND ALL THAT
KEVIN Q. BROWN
IS HEREBY AWARDED A SMALL FRACTION OF THE RECOGNITION HE DESERVES--
FROM A GRATEFUL CRYONICS COMMUNITY
(end virtual plaque presentation.)
Good luck to you, Kevin...and to us all, as we proceed into the brave new
world of the future.
Respectfully and Sincerely posted,
Rudi Hoffman
--
Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC
World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com
Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org,
Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org
Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/
Securities offered through Broker Dealer Financial Services Corp. Member
FINRA and SIPC.
--
Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC
World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com
Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org,
Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org
Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/
Securities offered through Broker Dealer Financial Services Corp. Member
FINRA and SIPC.
--20cf303bf95820b50f049e860a7b
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Message #33487
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:51:13 -0400
Subject: Re: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011
From: Robin Helweg-Larsen <[email protected]>
I love CryoNet, and I would hate to see it disappear.
I try to rate every message, as my small contribution to keeping the
system working as is - and I think that it works extremely well as is.
I am not clear on the reasons for CryoNet to enter stasis, and I would
be glad to hear. Time? Money? Frustration? Threats? As I say, from my
point of view it is working well as it is.
Robin Helweg-Larsen
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33487
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #33488
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:02:30 -0500
Subject: Re: CryoNet #33477 - #33481
From: Freeposity <[email protected]>
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 4:00 AM, CryoNet <[email protected]> wrote:
> CryoNet - Tue 15 Mar 2011
>
> #33477: Please don't kill CryoNet [Eivind Berge]
I already run a couple of mailing lists. I can add a cryonet mailing
list pretty easily if anyone is interested.
--
Impeach Clarence Thomas
Money isn't speech.
A Corporation isn't a person.
http://www.movetoamend.org/
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33488
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #33489
From: "Fred Chamberlain" <[email protected]>
Subject: cryonics
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:56:39 -0500
(RESUBMITTED DUE TO APPARENT AUTO-REJECTION, FOR USE
OF AN IMPROPER FONT, FORMATTING, ETC. WHO KNOWS?)
Re: X-Message-Number: 33476
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 04:40:55 -0000
Subject: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011
From: "Kevin Q. Brown" <[email protected]>
>After the March 17, 2011 digest mailing, no more new messages
>will be posted, although the archives still will be accessible
>as a historical record.
>Kevin Q. Brown
>[email protected]
>(Please include "cryonics" or "CryoNet" in the subject line.)
Thank you, Kevin, for the 22 years of history of thinking, by
(as you put it) "zombies" as well as others. We are especially
indebted to CryoNet for One particular posting and response,
which literally 'changed our lives'. It took place on the
16th of June, 2009, and is copied in its entirety, below.
X-Message-Number: 31744
From: "Peter Voss" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Virtual Immortality
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:49:58 -0700
>From: Charles Platt <[email protected]> : I'm starting to see
>companies that serve (or exploit, as you wish) those of us
>who spend a lot of time in webspace and are aware that
>after death occurs in the physical world, our virtual
>identities may linger in various uncontrolled or unexpected
>ways, or may disappear faster than we would like. Issues
>range from the persistence of a "dead" profile on Facebook
>to the inability of relatives to shut down accounts because
>they lack the necessary passwords. Here's a fair summary of
>some options:
>http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/05/18/
>eternal-space-legacy-locker/ .....
Anyone interested in that may want to look at:
http://www.cyberev.org/ This is run and funded by Martine
Rothblatt who is a great supporter of cryonics. She is
highly committed to making this a permanent and increasingly
comprehensive site. There should be a reasonably simple way to
copy/ backup your other web information to cyberev.org
*******************************************************
I was sitting in the passenger area of Sky Harbor Airport at
the time I saw this, browing CryoNet with a pitiful little
HP iPac personal assistant, but it at least allowed me to send
the link to Linda Chamberlain (my 'forever' partner at the firm
she was working), where she immediately had a look at CyBeRev
And the associated links, including the past issues of its
Journals on personal cyberconsciousness and what Terasem terms
"Geoethical Nanotechnology". By the time I got another break,
a note from Linda indicated that this was the doorway to an
area of activity we would have never suspected existed, except
for the posting by Charles Platt and Peter Voss's reply.
Why would we notice and take what was said by these two people
seriously? We had great respect for them both, as it turned
out. Charles Platt's novel "Silicon Man" was one of the first
(and still the best) stories about cyberconsciousness we had
ever seen; we'd had the pleasure of meeting him in New York
years before and spending time with him walking about Central
Park and elsewhere, after which he became very, very active in
cryonics and has since contributed a great deal to its growth
and development, including (at present) his participation in
the development of Mike Darwin's new blog, "Chronosphere". Our
past connections with Peter Voss went deeper still. During
our years of working with Alcor, in one never-to-be-forgotten
standby and suspension, we (Fred & Linda), along with Peter and
his partner, Evelyn, flew to Chicago, drove the standby/transport
equipment to the middle of Ohio, negotiated patient access with
a stubbornly resistant Catholic Hospital, carried out transport
and washout, flew back to Phoenix, and helped with the rest of
the operation (cryoprotection and start of cooldown). That was
memorable if for no other reason essentially going without
sleep for around eighty hours. One of those few opportunities
to do something we will always remember (if cryonics and other
pursuits of life extension permit), virtually 'forever'.
In any case, this 'on the fly' introduction to Terasem led to
our being able to participate in one of the workshop/colloquia
that Terasem held in Second Life in December, 1969, by way
of a talk titled "Empowerment of Cybertwins as Trustees, Surrogates
for Reanimation Decision Making, and Guardians of Cryonauts,
Prior to Personality Interface Implementation by Mutual Consent"
(online access at http://www.lifepact.com/cybertwins.htm with
links to a video at http://vimeo.com/10001382 where the Power
Point slides are blended with the audio of the talk. Two days
after the presentation in Second Life on Terasem Island, we
flew to Melbourne, Florida and on December 12, 2009 purchased
the mobile home where we now live, met Martine Rothblatt for
the first time 'in person' at noon, at the Terasem Ashram in
Melbourne Beach, and the following June (2010) moved into that
mobile home, where we are now deeply involved with Terasem and
what it is becoming. Based on that, we think it's a fair thing
to say that one posting on CryoNet literally 'changed our lives'
in ways that could scarcely have happened as they did, without
that interchange (between Charles Platt and Peter Voss).
So, it's with all of that in mind that, Keven, we thank you for
what just one posting on Cryonet did for the two of us, and
for all of the other historical interchanges that will now lie
there in wait for any who wish to explore them, perhaps to meet
those who without that they would never have known, and even
perhaps to find that doing so 'changed their lives' in ways that
cannot even begin to be imagined, at this time.
Boundless Life,
Fred & Linda Chamberlain
[email protected] and [email protected]
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Message #33490
From: "Peter Voss" <[email protected]>
Subject: CryoNet - Fred and Linda and Terasem
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:25:03 -0700
Dear Fred & Linda,
I'm glad that my simple reference to Terasem had such a positive effect!
Hope to see you guys soon - and for decades to come...
Best Regards,
Peter
From: Fred Chamberlain [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:26 AM
To: CryoNet
Cc: [email protected]; 'Linda Chamberlain'; 'Martine'
Subject: CryoNet
Re: X-Message-Number: 33476
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 04:40:55 -0000
Subject: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011
From: "Kevin Q. Brown" <[email protected]>
>After the March 17, 2011 digest mailing, no more new messages
>will be posted, although the archives still will be accessible
>as a historical record.
>Kevin Q. Brown
>[email protected]
>(Please include "cryonics" or "CryoNet" in the subject line.)
Thank you, Kevin, for the 22 years of history of thinking, by
(as you put it) "zombies" as well as others. We are especially
indebted to CryoNet for One particular posting and response,
which literally 'changed our lives'. It took place on the
16th of June, 2009, and is copied in its entirety, below.
X-Message-Number: 31744
From: "Peter Voss" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Virtual Immortality
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:49:58 -0700
>From: Charles Platt <[email protected]> : I'm starting to see
>companies that serve (or exploit, as you wish) those of us
>who spend a lot of time in webspace and are aware that
>after death occurs in the physical world, our virtual
>identities may linger in various uncontrolled or unexpected
>ways, or may disappear faster than we would like. Issues
>range from the persistence of a "dead" profile on Facebook
>to the inability of relatives to shut down accounts because
>they lack the necessary passwords. Here's a fair summary of
>some options:
>http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/05/18/
>eternal-space-legacy-locker/ .....
Anyone interested in that may want to look at:
http://www.cyberev.org/ This is run and funded by Martine
Rothblatt who is a great supporter of cryonics. She is
highly committed to making this a permanent and increasingly
comprehensive site. There should be a reasonably simple way to
copy/ backup your other web information to cyberev.org
*******************************************************
I was sitting in the passenger area of Sky Harbor Airport at
the time I saw this, browing CryoNet with a pitiful little
HP iPac personal assistant, but it at least allowed me to send
the link to Linda Chamberlain (my 'forever' partner at the firm
she was working), where she immediately had a look at CyBeRev
And the associated links, including the past issues of its
Journals on personal cyberconsciousness and what Terasem terms
"Geoethical Nanotechnology". By the time I got another break,
a note from Linda indicated that this was the doorway to an
area of activity we would have never suspected existed, except
for the posting by Charles Platt and Peter Voss's reply.
Why would we notice and take what was said by these two people
seriously? We had great respect for them both, as it turned
out. Charles Platt's novel "Silicon Man" was one of the first
(and still the best) stories about cyberconsciousness we had
ever seen; we'd had the pleasure of meeting him in New York
years before and spending time with him walking about Central
Park and elsewhere, after which he became very, very active in
cryonics and has since contributed a great deal to its growth
and development, including (at present) his participation in
the development of Mike Darwin's new blog, "Chronosphere". Our
past connections with Peter Voss went deeper still. During
our years of working with Alcor, in one never-to-be-forgotten
standby and suspension, we (Fred & Linda), along with Peter and
his partner, Evelyn, flew to Chicago, drove the standby/transport
equipment to the middle of Ohio, negotiated patient access with
a stubbornly resistant Catholic Hospital, carried out transport
and washout, flew back to Phoenix, and helped with the rest of
the operation (cryoprotection and start of cooldown). That was
memorable if for no other reason essentially going without
sleep for around eighty hours. One of those few opportunities
to do something we will always remember (if cryonics and other
pursuits of life extension permit), virtually 'forever'.
In any case, this 'on the fly' introduction to Terasem led to
our being able to participate in one of the workshop/colloquia
that Terasem held in Second Life in December, 1969, by way
of a talk titled "Empowerment of Cybertwins as Trustees, Surrogates
for Reanimation Decision Making, and Guardians of Cryonauts,
Prior to Personality Interface Implementation by Mutual Consent"
(online access at http://www.lifepact.com/cybertwins.htm with
links to a video at http://vimeo.com/10001382 where the Power
Point slides are blended with the audio of the talk. Two days
after the presentation in Second Life on Terasem Island, we
flew to Melbourne, Florida and on December 12, 2009 purchased
the mobile home where we now live, met Martine Rothblatt for
the first time 'in person' at noon, at the Terasem Ashram in
Melbourne Beach, and the following June (2010) moved into that
mobile home, where we are now deeply involved with Terasem and
what it is becoming. Based on that, we think it's a fair thing
to say that one posting on CryoNet literally 'changed our lives'
in ways that could scarcely have happened as they did, without
that interchange (between Charles Platt and Peter Voss).
So, it's with all of that in mind that, Keven, we thank you for
what just one posting on Cryonet did for the two of us, and
for all of the other historical interchanges that will now lie
there in wait for any who wish to explore them, perhaps to meet
those who without that they would never have known, and even
perhaps to find that doing so 'changed their lives' in ways that
cannot even begin to be imagined, at this time.
Boundless Life,
Fred & Linda Chamberlain
[email protected] and [email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of CryoNet
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 2:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: CryoNet #33477 - #33481
CryoNet - Tue 15 Mar 2011
#33477: Please don't kill CryoNet [Eivind Berge]
#33478: New Cryonet Yahoo Group formed [John de Rivaz]
#33479: Re: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011 [Keith Henson]
#33480: Re: CryoNet stasis [Stephen Bridge]
#33481: Behind the scenes suppression of free speech? [Finance
Department]
Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33477%2D33481
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Message #33477
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:36 +0100
Subject: Please don't kill CryoNet
From: Eivind Berge <[email protected]>
Kevin Q. Brown announced in Message #33476 that CryoNet will end on March
17, 2011. I want to say this is a very sad decision and I exhort him to
change his mind. Since 1996, CryoNet has been a daily fixture in my life,
and no other cryonics forum comes close for news and discussion on the
topic. In my opinion, the quality of postings is almost as good now as when
I first joined. Yes, there is also garbage, but not the "zombie hordes" of
trolls and spammers that would justify shutting the whole thing down. I
think the rating system works pretty well, too, though it has been abused on
occasion. Indeed everything works surprisingly well, given how open it is.
And the cryonics community needs a place for us to come together openly.
The beauty of CryoNet is its simplicity. No creeping featurism here, which
has degraded so many services. Just plain text by email which also remains
immutably in the archives, easily referenced. CryoNet does not need a major
reboot, in my opinion, and it certainly does not deserve to die. Just leave
it alone, please.
Eivind Berge
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33477
Message #33478
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: New Cryonet Yahoo Group formed
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:58:16 -0000
I have formed a Yahoo Group called New Cryonet. Those who are disappointed
with the closure of the CryoNet mailing list can use this. Abusive posters,
spammers etc., will be put on moderation, but otherwise anyone is free to
join and anyone may post.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Cryonet
To start with I will be "dictator", but if the group attracts a lot of
members and is popular, then there can be other moderators. Hopefully
everyone will behave and there will be no need for anyone to be "on
moderation" :-)
The advantage of Yahoo Groups is that people can use them on the web or as
an email list. If you don't want lots of individual emails, you can set your
membership to "digest" and it will work exactly like CryoNet.
You can post your message by sending to
[email protected]
It is best to join the group via the web, but you can also subscribe by
sending an email to [email protected]
If someone else forms another email list that is more popular, then this one
could be closed down to avoid fragmentation. There are, of course, already
web based forums, but you have to go to the web page every time to view them
which some people prefer not to have to do. You can, in fact use "New
CryoNet" like a web list if you really wanted to, by setting your membership
to "no email" and just reading on the web.
--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more
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Message #33479
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:01:24 -0700
Subject: Re: CryoNet to Enter Stasis March 17, 2011
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 2:00 AM, "Kevin Q. Brown" <[email protected]>
snip
> After the March 17, 2011 digest mailing, no more new messages will be
> posted, although the archives still will be accessible as a historical
> record.
Sigh. It's your mailing list.
> Fortunately, unlike 1988, cryonics and related topics now are covered
> very well in many other places on the Internet.
> Please visit and nourish them. And avoid the zombie hordes.
What do you recommend?
I have no idea of what is out there that's any good. The ones I have looked
at I have not liked at all.
Best wishes,
Keith
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33479
Message #33480
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet stasis
From: Stephen Bridge <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 22:03:54 -0400 (EDT)
----------MB_8CDB0CC5F2F1606_1EA8_677BF_webmail-m002.sysops.aol.com
Kevin, 22 years of anything is good. 22 years of dealing with a contentious
bunch of cryonicists is bravery beyond the strength of most people. I
admire you for starting CryoNet and for putting up with everyone for this
long. You've done us all more good than you'll ever be thanked for. Thank
you. Your break is well-earned.
Steve Bridge
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Message #33481
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 01:51:56 -0500
Subject: Behind the scenes suppression of free speech?
From: Finance Department <[email protected]>
--000325558c3638792d049e7fdd21
I find it curious that within weeks of the Cold Filter owner beginning to
moderate so heavily that entire posts from some veteran members are deleted,
causing some such to cease bothering to post there and the forum to become a
bowl of infrequent pablum messages, now the CryoNet owner is also
mysteriously moved to put his forum into "stasis".
And what are we offered so far as a replacement? An advertisement-laden
Yahoo Group where dictatorial moderation is promised (Definition of
moderation: The censorship of material the dictator or a clique of same,
personally disagrees with).
It almost makes one wonder who is behind this recent disabling of what once
were free speech vehicles for cryonics and related discussion. And what the
incentives or disincentives were for complying with the orders for shutdown
or heavy moderation.
And now Stephen Bridge, Alcor's emergency Spin Doctor, who rarely is allowed
by his work and family to post at all, has emerged as well, in defense of
CryoNet going away.
Oh OK, given the possibility there was no such outside influence, then the
blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the forum owners, acting
irresponsibly to deter/disallow free speech. I, though, smell a rat in the
background.
And I respectfully request Kevin Brown the CN owner, if he carries out his
death (stasis) threat, to reanimate the forum thereafter as soon as
possible, after a brief period of personal reflection on the implications of
his action of removing the only remaining free speech vehicle for cryonics
discussion from the internet.
Not so cheerful,
FD
--000325558c3638792d049e7fdd21
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Message #33491
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: Kevin Brown?
Kevin
I can't help but wonder why would you just shut Cryonet down instead of trying to find someone to take over implementing it?
Over the years you have made Cryonet something that belongs to the cryonics community, not to you. We have supported your effort to do just that.
John D has offered to start a new one, but it would be much better if he just took over what is already established as the current Cryonet has a big mailing list and it will be hard, and take time, to duplicate that.
I would ask you to keep Cryonet up and running while you ask if there is someone available who has the skills and time to take it over.
I hope you are OK and your health etc are good.
Sincerely,
David Pizer
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33491
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Message #33492
From: Mathew Sullivan <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:16:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Kevin Brown? [david pizer]
--e0cb4e385534a77be7049e8a45d4
There is a bit more to the situation David. Kevin, can you go into some
detail about the challenges you have had keeping the system
operational because of antiquated hardware and software?
Mathew
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Message #33493
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:08:49 -0600
From: "York W. &/or Lois G. Porter" <[email protected]>
Subject: Thanks to Kevin and John
Tuesday, March ,2011
2:01 p.m. CDT
Say it ain't so, Joe....er... Kevin. Seriously, many, many thanks to Kevin
for all his years of service. Also thanks to John de Rivaz for being
willing to step into the void here. Cryonet has been one of the "highlights
of the day" for yours truly for a long, long time now. Hopefully John's
efforts will keep all of us from "cryonics message withdrawal".
York
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33493
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Message #33494
From: Daniel Crevier <[email protected]>
Subject: CryoNet to enter stasis
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:15:53 -0400
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Gee, that's sad!
Thanks, Kevin, for making available this much appreciated medium of exchange through all those years. Its demise actually came as a shock to me, but you do deserve a break!
I will definitely subscribe to John de Rivaz' Yahoo group, and I hope to see y'all there.
Daniel Crevier
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Message #33495
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:44:16 -0700
From: Gary Kline <[email protected]>
Subject: Cryonet:: new subdomain....
A few weeks ago I finally got http://cryonic.thought.org set up with
more than the "test banner" that has been there for years.
Sometime in early April I will public the latest essay my views on
suicide+cryonics. Suicide is legal if one is within six months of
death here in WA state. Also in OR. I believe also in Holland and
Switzerland.
I will also move my couple/few essays from
http://transfinite.thought.org to my cryonics subdomain. What
I hope to have up on my new pages in my view of cryonics as a
bioethicist. Those who know HTML and wish to have things
published should get in contact with me. I'll make adjustments
to the site as necessary.
Whoever on this list is interested in continuing the kinds of
discussions as have been done on this site should google around for
"Oregon Cryonics" ...
--
Gary Kline [email protected] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org
The 7.98a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33495
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Message #33496
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:04:14 -0500
Subject: Who Is To Blame
From: Finance Department <[email protected]>
--bcaec52d4b0577845d049e9350b7
To Mike Darwin, thank you for the interesting post, but don't tell me what
to do.
Now we have Kevin Q. Brown and Jonathan Hinek to blame for the demise of
free speech regarding cryonics on the internet, with Darwin admitting a
background influence. Who else would like to share the blame? Kent?
More/O'Connor? C'mon, speak up quick - CN is about to die, on Saint Patty's
day March 17 - not much time left and unsure which will be the last day's
message blast.
One last word for all: BOYCOTT any moderated forums. Regardless of any
excuses presented, the editing or deleting of other people's posts is
dictatorial censorship no matter what the reason, and ALWAYS represents the
simple difference of opinion between the moderator and the one moderated.
It is a power trip, no more.
I wish I could recommend an un-moderated alternative to CN and CF, but I
don't know of any. Maybe someone will be kind enough to start one, and
announce it while there is still an existing audience to announce it to.
Otherwise, the dictators will have won their war, and free and open
discussion about all things cryonics will be a thing of the past and no
longer of benefit to its progress.
FD
--bcaec52d4b0577845d049e9350b7
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Message #33497
From: marta sandberg <[email protected]>
Subject: Thank you and Goodbye
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:27:21 +0800
--_615da95a-0b8f-4273-84fd-9ead6f5660b6_
Thank you for the CryoNet.
I didn't quite understand why it has to be shut down, but I have to assume there is a very good reason for it.
The CryoNet has been important to me. Until recently, I have been the only cryonicists for thousands of miles and the CryoNet was my sustenance and encouragement.
It helped me keep my courage up as my husband died and was frozen. It has kept me in touch with people and helped me forge new friendships. It has kept me up to date and forced me to think about some exotic subjects.
It will be sorely missed.
Thank you, Kevin Q. Brown, for your work and effort in giving us all decades of CryoNet. Although there have been some less attractive people who have used the CryoNet on occasions, most of us are dedicated cryonicists and it is in their name that I want to say THAN YOU for giving all of us the CryoNet.
Long life,
Marta Sandberg
--_615da95a-0b8f-4273-84fd-9ead6f5660b6_
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Message #33498
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:44:28 +0100
Subject: Cryonicist.com could become the next Cryonet
From: Jonathan Despres <[email protected]>
I own the url Cryonicist.com for 10 years for now, I could install the
cryonet files there, just to continue our discussions.
I would only need the files, I have everything else.
--Jon
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33498
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Message #33499
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: continuing threads to New Cryonet
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:47:28 -0000
When continuing threads to
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Cryonet
please quote from the old thread on CryoNet, and it may also be a good idea during the transition period to check on the web (if you can) whether the originator of the thread (ie the from: bit) is on New Cryonet and if not cc him into the message.
It is also possible to use the New Cryonet web page to invite members. If you invite someone who is already there, it will say so. Therefore there is no risk of inviting someone who is already there. This could be used if one of your favourite writers on CryoNet isn't on the new list.
Please everyone note that New Cryonet may not be used to solicit money and whilst it is on Yahoo Groups it will ***not*** suddenly disappear behind a paywall once its gets popular, as could privately managed web sites. [Unless, I suppose Yahoo puts up a paywall, but as stated earlier it uses the highly successful advertising method to gain funds.]
--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more
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