Re: Ash of Stars

I think the best description of criminality in opposition to society in
early Delany is the story 'Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious
Stones', one of my very favorites. In it, the narrator is a criminal trying
to move up in the world, and consorts with artists (the Singers),
politicians, and other criminals; I'm sure one could draw several
entertaining quotes about the putative relationship of criminality and
society from that story (something about "The will to steal"; I don't have
the text in front of me.). It's all a bit of a lark and I wouldn't say that
it's 'true' in any real way that makes a difference to, say, theories of
incarceration. It's an exceedingly romantic view of the artist, as Dan'l
points out.

Also:
The criminal is the creative artist; the detective only the critic.
-- G.K. Chesterton, The Blue Cross

Every work of art is an uncommitted crime.
-- THEODOR WIESENGRUND ADORNO, Minima Moralia

--Z

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

> Actually, I don't think that criminals stand in opposition to society
> at all. But rather than argue the obvious, when I think of this my
> first thoughts go to Richard Wright, who wondered about the potential
> of outsiderness in NATIVE SON (1940) and THE OUTSIDER (1953), both
> with gruesome implicit conclusions. Real criminality is not remotely
> oppositional. But there's the question of the potentials of the
> outsider perspective, explored by Wright in all his work from at least
> 1940 on. Delany, like Wright, is a highly civilzed man, though not a
> product of the dire circumstances of the latter, so that, whatever he
> has experienced in the Unlicensed Zone, he wouldn't do well with real
> criminals. He's probably been around thugs, as I have, and hopefully
> he'd be smart enough to see them as the enemy.
>
>  But there's something else I vaguel recall from BABEL-17, as much as
> I can remember from three and a half decades ago. Was not the
> criminality of one of the main characters due to his inarticulateness,
> his inability to conceptualize his experience? This factor changes the
> entire perspective.
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>  On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:26:58 -0700, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
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> > Ralph,
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> > The "union of the criminal and the artist" comes, I think, from two
> things.
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> > The first is the existence of a few notable poets in history who were
> > outlaws (notably Francois Villon, arguably the best French poet of
> > his century).
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> > The second, and more important to my mind, is that both artists and
> > criminals stand in opposition to society.
> >
> > --Dan'l
> >
> > To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> > From: [email protected]
> > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:18:19 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [delany-list] Ash of Stars
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> > I haven't read Delany himself in many years, but reading the first
> > few essays in this book have blown my mind. There are certain aspects
> > of contemporary academic writing and ideology in the book, and the
> > framing of academic concerns, that always irritate me, but the
> > observations of some of these authors give me something new to think
> > about as well as to pinpoint my particular reactions to Delany, to
> > reception of Delany, to subcultures, etc. I don't believe in the
> > union of the criminal and the artist, by the way. That kind of
> > thinking has got to go. On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:05:46 -0400,
> > [email protected] wrote:
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> > Well, I finally located a cheap copy in a used book store, been on my
> > list for some time. Actually, though, it's been some years since I
> > read anything by or about Delany.Maybe the attempts to decipher k>
> > Leslie Steiner will pique my interest. [Non-text portions of this
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> > ------------------------------------
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> > == Posted to delany-list, hosted at yahoo groups ==
> > == A mailing list for the discussion of the works of Samuel R.
> > Delany. ==Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
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> ------------------------------------
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> == Posted to delany-list, hosted at yahoo groups ==
> == A mailing list for the discussion of the works of Samuel R. Delany.
> ==Yahoo! Groups Links
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