Re: After Genoa - tangibles on eco-modelling

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Jacob
This is useful: thank you for making things more explicit

It would be very helpful  indeed if you were to make these points-- and =
=20
other relevant points in your report on learning --  and in particular=20=20
link the research you have done since the last review with the aims of=20=20
WebLabs (not in a limited way that you suggest we do but in a broader=20=20
way - that is fine as long as the link is there) -- and also relate it=20=20
to your  original plans for complex systems/ eco literacy  and=20=20
ascending levels of abstraction or random literacy. As I recall it was=20=20
always planned by you to work on these with teachers in the way you=20=20
have suggested and this we assumed is why you chose those domains, is=20=20
that not the case?

Anyway, this would be very helpful for the review as well as for the=20=20
project overall (and maybe reference what reviewers said in last years=20=20
as  no doubt they will raise similar issues). We do all need to learn=20=20
but we are also constrained as you know by the contract.

Richard and I in the last day have drafted a rough version of the final =
=20
report -- which we will send round soon for partners to add to, comment =
=20
on and insert examples

We look forward to receiving your contributions as well as your report=20=20
on learnin. All information fro learning reports will be used as well=20=20
-- we just wanted to start the process of the final report now as time=20=20
is running out)  We will of course use yours and hope to do justice to=20=20
them



On 12 May 2005, at 14:49, Jakob Tholander wrote:

>  Hi everyone,
>
>  I have to say that even though I wasn't present at Ylva's=20=20
> presentation I understand from her reaction and from what I gather=20=20
> from the reaction of the rest of the project that our work on=20=20
> tangibles did not get much positive feedback.
>
>  Unfortunately, from my point of view the dominant part of the project =
=20
> has adopted a very limited view of the core ideas of weblabs i.e.=20=20
> transparent modules, working models, collaboration, and knowledge=20=20
> building for knowledge domain in math and science for 10-14 year-olds. =
=20
> We all have interpreted these ideas in different ways and adapted them =
=20
> to our different conditions, while some has focused more on knowledge =
=20
> building through group discussions other have focused on the idea of=20=20
> transparent models. I believe that it should be considered a strength =
=20
> of the project that we are working with different perspectives of how =
=20
> these ideas might support the different knowledge domains for the=20=20
> age-span of our target group (don't forget 11 year-olds are very=20=20
> different from 14 year-olds). However, as the project has developed it =
=20
> has basically all been about small and quite advanced areas in=20=20
> mathematics and how one can make those accessible for kids. In Sweden =
=20
> on the other hand we have chosen to work with a knowledge domain that =
=20
> have less such properties. We have spent considerable efforts in=20=20
> grounding our domain in the Swedish curriculum and the schools we are =
=20
> collaborating with. To deny the value of how that domain is formulated =
=20
> by referring to a scientific journal about complex systems I have to=20=20
> say seems incredibly naive. Also, we would be terribly ignorant if we =
=20
> when discussing appropriate knowledge domains with the teachers of our =
=20
> school if we simply dismissed their interests and ways of working. As =
=20
> a researcher it is not my job to tell the teachers what they should be =
=20
> teaching their children, it is merely to provide them with a new set=20=20
> of tools that they might find useful in their practice.
>
>  An other important thing which seem not to have been discussed is=20=20
> that the work with tangibles that we have been doing aimed at=20=20
> addressing the issues in the contract that were about exploring new
>  tangible technologies for building working models of one's knowledge. =
=20
> This has involved exploring and investigate technologies for tangible =
=20
> systems that we did not have access to at the start of the project.=20=20
> The application that we have built is therefore still a prototype and =
=20
> not finished in any way. It is of course easy to criticize it in many =
=20
> ways. What our application attempts to demonstrate is how tangible=20=20
> technologies can be designed for children to collaborately build=20=20
> working models of dynamic systems. Therefore we have also chosen to=20=20
> implement a subset of the ecomodelling behaviours that we have been=20=20
> implementing in ToonTalk. We are very much aware that the prototype=20=20
> needs further work when it comes to the kinds of models that children =
=20
> can build with it, but the goal was never that this application would =
=20
> be ready for full-scale testing within the project. In our activities =
=20
> with children we believe that we actually have come quite far in also =
=20
> evaluating the use of the system for learning about ecosystems.
>
>  /jakob
>
>
>  At 09:33 2005-05-12, Ken Kahn wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> =A0
>> I think Ylva and Jakob's work on tangibles has led to an innovative=20=20
>> and interesting input device. Furthermore they showed how the device =
=20
>> can change the way children build models, especially how they=20=20
>> collaborate. I think this is good work and I'll leave it to others to =
=20
>> make this work fit into the project final report.
>> =A0
>> Where I disagree with Joao Filipe is about the word "eco" and to=20=20
>> lesser extent "complex systems". A very quick Google search and I=20=20
>> found "Complex Systems is a journal devoted to the science,=20=20
>> mathematics, and engineering of systems with simple components but=20=20
>> complex overall behavior." My problem with making a connection to=20=20
>> complex systems is I don't see what we or the kids have to say about =
=20
>> "the complex overall behaviour". If we want to say they were doing=20=20
>> complex systems then they should be trying to understand the overall =
=20
>> behaviour -- I don't recall hearing that the kids were trying to do=20=20
>> this.
>> =A0
>> I have a few problems using "eco" to describe what the kids were=20=20
>> doing. First, this year the kids have drifted even further from=20=20
>> modelling ecologies -- I admit that vampires and skeletons could be=20=20
>> part of an imaginary ecology but I think the kids were not=20=20
>> approaching things that way. Previous years were more focussed on=20=20
>> ecologies. Yes, one small part of understanding ecologies is that=20=20
>> some creatures eat other creatures. But it seems hard to make a case =
=20
>> that kids need to build computer models to understand that more=20=20
>> deeply. Ecological questions are about balance, disturbances,=20=20
>> sustainability, etc. At the minimum there needs to be reproduction=20=20
>> since without it everyone starves. Ideally there should sources and=20=20
>> sinks for energy and other resources. Compare the WebLabs=20=20
>> eco-literacy efforts with those in StageCast Creator --=20=20
>> http://www.stagecast.com/cgi-bin/templator.cgi?PAGE=3DSchool/worlds/=20
>> simhost/POPULATIONGROWTH/ -- I bet the StageCast version is at least =
=20
>> as transparent as the eco-modelling TM and is so much richer.
>> =A0
>> Best,
>> =A0
>> -ken
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joao Filipe Matos
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected] ; Joao Filipe Matos
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:29 PM
>> Subject: [weblabs-general] After Genoa - tangibles on eco-modelling
>>
>> Dear Weblabs'
>>
>> =A0
>> First of all thanks to our Italian colleagues for the hospitality=20=20
>> during the meeting.
>> When returning to Lisbon (two flights connection and 9 hours=20=20
>> travelling) I guess I realized how impressed I was of the reaction of =
=20
>> several people in the meeting after the short presentation of Ylva on =
=20
>> Eco-modelling tangibles, and how unconfortable I felt for not having =
=20
>> reacted (as I think I should). Certainly that we need to make a=20=20
>> (collective) effort to provide evidence of the relevance of what we=20=20
>> are all doing in the project and to convince our audience(s) that our =
=20
>> claims are educationaly soundfull. As this is a research project, and =
=20
>> as open-minded researchers, I think that our positioning as=20=20
>> researchers must go in the line of interrogate what evidence are we=20=20
>> providing for the claims we are doing and discuss this openly (and=20=20
>> this criteria must certainly be equally applied to all knowledge=20=20
>> domains) and we must support all efforts to explore new ways of=20=20
>> representing knowledge and develop powerful ideas and learning (at=20=20
>> the end, this is what WebLabs is about).
>> As far as I could interprete, Ylva presented a first exploration of a =
=20
>> kind of tangibles that allow children to both embody and be in the=20=20
>> millieu of a phenomenon which clearly is in the domain of complex=20=20
>> systems and ecology. Being the basis to children activities a=20=20
>> "computational world", this goes in parallel with the work of Abelson =
=20
>> and DiSessa when they were exploring virtual worlds with Logo back in =
=20
>> the 1980's (although in different time and distance of the technology =
=20
>> resources available by that time) . The added value of the line Ylva =
=20
>> is following now, is that it brings together new ways of looking at=20=20
>> learning and cognition (see for example the way Francisco Varela=20=20
>> discusses this in his book Principles of Biological Autonomy bringing =
=20
>> in the concept of "autopoiesis"; the way Humberto Maturana and=20=20
>> Francisco Varela go in Ch. 5 the natural drift of living beings in=20=20
>> The Tree of Knowledge; the forms the discussion of Terry Winograd and =
=20
>> Fernando Flores as! sume in Ch.3 and 4 into cognition as biological=20=20
>> phenomena on Understanding Computers and Cognition-new frontiers for =
=20
>> design; the way Boohan suggest creating worlds from objects and=20=20
>> events in Ogborn et al. Learning with Articial Worlds-Computer bases =
=20
>> Modelling; etc).
>> Flying from Genoa to Paris I got from the French newspaper Liberation =
=20
>> of 10 May an article on how scientists are trying to fight=20=20
>> Homalodisca Coagulata (a small fly that is terrible for several kinds =
=20
>> of fruit) with another fly, La microguepe. This is a rather important =
=20
>> problem in the field of ecology as the scientists are not sure if=20=20
>> there is some further implication of the action they are taking to=20=20
>> combat the bad fly although the probablity is low acoording to the=20=20
>> report (see how natural is puting together randomness and=20=20
>> eco-modelling). A decision was taken to make a controled experiment=20=20
>> in Polinesia and then to decide if the problem can be addressed in=20=20
>> the same way in the US. It is a simple real and important problem=20=20
>> that children can model when being exposed to the story of what is=20=20
>> happening in those countries, and in doing so, deal with relevant=20=20
>> issues in ecoliteracy, science and mathematics. But this has to make =
=20
>> sense in the particular context of the Swedish school (! or any other =
=20
>> country) in order to be fully appreciated by teachers and children.
>> Certainly one needs to ask relevant and powerful research questions=20=20
>> when looking at the experiments Ylva is doing with the tangibles. Let =
=20
>> me offer a few suggestions:
>> - how do children decide what behaviours to assign to each character =
=20
>> and why?=A0 what is their alignment (i.e. what do they aim for, what is =
=20
>> the expected outcome of the model built)?
>> - what steps can we identify in children's discussion and dialogue=20=20
>> (e.g. reflecting + identifying variables and behaviours -- assigning =
=20
>> behaviours -- defining quantities of characters -- putting the model =
=20
>> in action -- observing the global behaviour of the population of=20=20
>> characters -- telling stories (i.e. constructing narratives to make=20=20
>> sense of the phenomena) -- refining the model (i.e. changing the=20=20
>> behaviours -- etc).
>> - how do children relate the local to the global (i.e. the local=20=20
>> definition of each character to the global population)? how is=20=20
>> locality addressed by children? how do they formulate (in their=20=20
>> repertoire) those relationships? how do they deal with this dimention =
=20
>> of complexity?
>> - how do children "project" themselves in the field of the characters =
=20
>> they build? what is specific of their location in that field (of=20=20
>> characters) -- as "part of the system" in the sense of Varela or=20=20
>> within the system -- that becomes visible in the way they collaborate =
=20
>> in the production of the global system?
>> - what is the nature of the ressonance of this activity of children=20=20
>> in the way they address problems such as the example I got from=20=20
>> Liberation?
>> - in the methodological dimension, would it be helpful to make a=20=20
>> collective interview of the group following guidelines that allow the =
=20
>> researcher to have detailed evidence of the ways they appropriate=20=20
>> powerful ideas in eco-modelling?
>>
>> =A0
>> I hope this is helpful. It is the way I found to support Ylva here.
>> All the best,
>> Joao Filipe
>>
>> =A0
>> http://www.educ.fc.ul.pt/docentes/jfmatos
>>
>> =A0
>>
>>
>> =A0
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> 	=95 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> 	=95 	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weblabs-general/
>> 	=95 	=A0
>> 	=95 	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> 	=95 	[email protected]
>> 	=95 	=A0
>> 	=95 	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20=20
>> Service.
>
>
>  ------
>  phone + 46 8 674 74 79
>  mobile + 46 70 482 12 51
> www.dsv.su.se/research/kids
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 	=95 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weblabs-general/
> =A0
> 	=95 	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> =A0
> 	=95 	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20=20
> Service.
>
>
Very best wishes

Celia

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<bigger><x-tad-bigger>Jacob=20

This is useful: thank you for making things more explicit


It would be very helpful  indeed if you were to make these points--
and other relevant points in your report on learning --  and in
particular link the research you have done since the last review with
the aims of WebLabs (not in a limited way that you suggest we do but
in a broader way - that is fine as long as the link is there) -- and
also relate it to your  original plans for complex systems/ eco
literacy  and ascending levels of abstraction or random literacy. As I
recall it was always planned by you to work on these with teachers in
the way you have suggested and this we assumed is why you chose those
domains, is that not the case?


Anyway, this would be very helpful for the review as well as for the
project overall (and maybe reference what reviewers said in last years
as  no doubt they will raise similar issues). We do all need to learn
but we are also constrained as you know by the contract.


Richard and I in the last day have drafted a rough version of the
final report -- which we will send round soon for partners to add to,
comment on and insert examples


We look forward to receiving your contributions as well as your report
on learnin. All information fro learning reports will be used as well
-- we just wanted to start the process of the final report now as time
is running out)  We will of course use yours and hope to do justice to
them

=20



On 12 May 2005, at 14:49, Jakob Tholander wrote:


</x-tad-bigger><excerpt><x-tad-bigger> Hi everyone,


 I have to say that even though I wasn't present at Ylva's
presentation I understand from her reaction and from what I gather
from the reaction of the rest of the project that our work on
tangibles did not get much positive feedback.=20


 Unfortunately, from my point of view the dominant part of the project
has adopted a very limited view of the core ideas of weblabs i.e.
transparent modules, working models, collaboration, and knowledge
building for knowledge domain in math and science for 10-14 year-olds.
We all have interpreted these ideas in different ways and adapted them
to our different conditions, while some has focused more on knowledge
building through group discussions other have focused on the idea of
transparent models. I believe that it should be considered a strength
of the project that we are working with different perspectives of how
these ideas might support the different knowledge domains for the
age-span of our target group (don't forget 11 year-olds are very
different from 14 year-olds). However, as the project has developed it
has basically all been about small and quite advanced areas in
mathematics and how one can make those accessible for kids. In Sweden
on the other hand we have chosen to work with a knowledge domain that
have less such properties. We have spent considerable efforts in
grounding our domain in the Swedish curriculum and the schools we are
collaborating with. To deny the value of how that domain is formulated
by referring to a scientific journal about complex systems I have to
say seems incredibly naive. Also, we would be terribly ignorant if we
when discussing appropriate knowledge domains with the teachers of our
school if we simply dismissed their interests and ways of working. As
a researcher it is not my job to tell the teachers what they should be
teaching their children, it is merely to provide them with a new set
of tools that they might find useful in their practice.


 An other important thing which seem not to have been discussed is
that the work with tangibles that we have been doing aimed at
addressing the issues in the contract that were about exploring new=20

 tangible technologies for building working models of one's knowledge.
This has involved exploring and investigate technologies for tangible
systems that we did not have access to at the start of the project.
The application that we have built is therefore still a prototype and
not finished in any way. It is of course easy to criticize it in many
ways. What our application attempts to demonstrate is how tangible
technologies can be designed for children to collaborately build
working models of dynamic systems. Therefore we have also chosen to
implement a subset of the ecomodelling behaviours that we have been
implementing in ToonTalk. We are very much aware that the prototype
needs further work when it comes to the kinds of models that children
can build with it, but the goal was never that this application would
be ready for full-scale testing within the project. In our activities
with children we believe that we actually have come quite far in also
evaluating the use of the system for learning about ecosystems.


 /jakob



 At 09:33 2005-05-12, Ken Kahn wrote:

=
</x-tad-bigger></excerpt></bigger><excerpt><excerpt><fontfamily><param>Com=
ic Sans MS</param><x-tad-bigger>Hi
all.</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>I
think Ylva and Jakob's work on tangibles has led to an innovative and
interesting input device. Furthermore they showed how the device can
change the way children build models, especially how they collaborate.
I think this is good work and I'll leave it to others to make this
work fit into the project final =
report.</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>Where
I disagree with Joao Filipe is about the word "eco" and to lesser
extent "complex systems". A very quick Google search and I found
"</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><italic><fontfamily><param>Times New =
Roman</param><x-tad-bigger>Complex
Systems</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily></italic><fontfamily><param>Times New =
Roman</param><x-tad-bigger>
is a journal devoted to the science, mathematics, and engineering of
systems with simple components but complex overall behavior."
</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>My
problem with making a connection to complex systems is I don't see
what we or the kids have to say about "the complex overall behaviour".
If we want to say they were doing complex systems then they should be
trying to understand the overall behaviour -- I don't recall hearing
that the kids were trying to do =
this.</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>I
have a few problems using "eco" to describe what the kids were doing.
First, this year the kids have drifted even further from modelling
ecologies -- I admit that vampires and skeletons could be part of an
imaginary ecology but I think the kids were not approaching things
that way. Previous years were more focussed on ecologies. Yes, one
small part of understanding ecologies is that some creatures eat other
creatures. But it seems hard to make a case that kids need to build
computer models to understand that more deeply. Ecological questions
are about balance, disturbances, sustainability, etc. At the minimum
there needs to be reproduction since without it everyone starves.
Ideally there should sources and sinks for energy and other resources.
Compare the WebLabs eco-literacy efforts with those in StageCast
Creator --
=
</x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>http://ww=
w.stagecast.com/cgi-bin/templator.cgi?PAGE=3DSchool/worlds/simhost/POPULAT=
IONGROWTH/</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>
-- I bet the StageCast version is at least as transparent as the
eco-modelling TM and is so much =
richer.</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>Best,</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-bi=
gger>

=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><fontfamily><param>Comic Sans =
MS</param><x-tad-bigger>-ken</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily><bigger><x-tad-big=
ger>


----- Original Message -----

From:
</x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>Joao
Filipe Matos</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>=20

To:
=
</x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>weblabs-g=
[email protected]</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>=20

Cc:
=
</x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>mpsantos@=
fc.ul.pt</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>
; </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>Joao
Filipe Matos</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>=20

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:29 PM

Subject: [weblabs-general] After Genoa - tangibles on eco-modelling


</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>Dear =
Weblabs'</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>


=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>First of all thanks to our
Italian colleagues for the hospitality during the =
meeting.</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>When returning to Lisbon (two
flights connection and 9 hours travelling) I guess I realized how
impressed I was of the reaction of several people in the meeting after
the short presentation of Ylva on Eco-modelling tangibles, and how
unconfortable I felt for not having reacted (as I think I should).
Certainly that we need to make a (collective) effort to provide
evidence of the relevance of what we are all doing in the project and
to convince our audience(s) that our claims are educationaly
soundfull. As this is a research project, and as open-minded
researchers, I think that our positioning as researchers must go in
the line of interrogate what evidence are we providing for the claims
we are doing and discuss this openly (and this criteria must certainly
be equally applied to all knowledge domains) and we must support all
efforts to explore new ways of representing knowledge and develop
powerful ideas and learning (at the end, this is what WebLabs is
about).</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>As far as I could interprete,
Ylva presented a first exploration of a kind of tangibles that allow
children to both embody and be in the millieu of a phenomenon which
clearly is in the domain of complex systems and ecology. Being the
basis to children activities a "computational world", this goes in
parallel with the work of Abelson and DiSessa when they were exploring
virtual worlds with Logo back in the 1980's (although in different
time and distance of the technology resources available by that time)
. The added value of the line Ylva is following now, is that it brings
together new ways of looking at learning and cognition (see for
example the way Francisco Varela discusses this in his book Principles
of Biological Autonomy bringing in the concept of "autopoiesis"; the
way Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela go in Ch. 5 the natural
drift of living beings in The Tree of Knowledge; the forms the
discussion of Terry Winograd and Fernando Flores as! sume in Ch.3 and
4 into cognition as biological phenomena on Understanding Computers
and Cognition-new frontiers for design; the way Boohan suggest
creating worlds from objects and events in Ogborn et al. Learning with
Articial Worlds-Computer bases Modelling; =
etc).</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>Flying from Genoa to Paris I got
from the French newspaper Liberation of 10 May an article on how
scientists are trying to fight Homalodisca Coagulata (a small fly that
is terrible for several kinds of fruit) with another fly, La
microguepe. This is a rather important problem in the field of ecology
as the scientists are not sure if there is some further implication of
the action they are taking to combat the bad fly although the
probablity is low acoording to the report (see how natural is puting
together randomness and eco-modelling). A decision was taken to make a
controled experiment in Polinesia and then to decide if the problem
can be addressed in the same way in the US. It is a simple real and
important problem that children can model when being exposed to the
story of what is happening in those countries, and in doing so, deal
with relevant issues in ecoliteracy, science and mathematics. But this
has to make sense in the particular context of the Swedish school (!
or any other country) in order to be fully appreciated by teachers and
children.</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>Certainly one needs to ask
relevant and powerful research questions when looking at the
experiments Ylva is doing with the tangibles. Let me offer a few
suggestions:</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- how do children decide what
behaviours to assign to each character and why?=A0 what is their
alignment (i.e. what do they aim for, what is the expected outcome of
the model built)?</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- what steps can we identify in
children's discussion and dialogue (e.g. reflecting + identifying
variables and behaviours -- assigning behaviours -- defining
quantities of characters -- putting the model in action -- observing
the global behaviour of the population of characters -- telling
stories (i.e. constructing narratives to make sense of the phenomena)
-- refining the model (i.e. changing the behaviours -- =
etc).</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- how do children relate the
local to the global (i.e. the local definition of each character to
the global population)? how is locality addressed by children? how do
they formulate (in their repertoire) those relationships? how do they
deal with this dimention of =
complexity?</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- how do children "project"
themselves in the field of the characters they build? what is specific
of their location in that field (of characters) -- as "part of the
system" in the sense of Varela or within the system -- that becomes
visible in the way they collaborate in the production of the global
system?</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- what is the nature of the
ressonance of this activity of children in the way they address
problems such as the example I got from =
Liberation?</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>- in the methodological
dimension, would it be helpful to make a collective interview of the
group following guidelines that allow the researcher to have detailed
evidence of the ways they appropriate powerful ideas in =
eco-modelling?</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>


=A0

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>I hope this is helpful. It is
the way I found to support Ylva =
here.</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>All the =
best,</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger><x-tad-bigger>Joao =
Filipe</x-tad-bigger><bigger><x-tad-bigger>


=A0

=
</x-tad-bigger></bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>=
http://www.educ.fc.ul.pt/docentes/jfmatos</x-tad-bigger></color><bigger><x=
-tad-bigger>


=A0



=A0


</x-tad-bigger><fixed><x-tad-bigger>Yahoo! Groups Links =
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</x-tad-bigger><fixed><x-tad-bigger> =
------</x-tad-bigger></fixed><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger><fixed><x-tad-bigger> phone + 46 8 674 74 =
79</x-tad-bigger></fixed><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger><fixed><x-tad-bigger> mobile + 46 70 482 12 =
51</x-tad-bigger></fixed><x-tad-bigger>

=
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w.dsv.su.se/research/kids</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger> =
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</x-tad-bigger></bigger><bold><x-tad-bigger>Yahoo! Groups =
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tp://groups.yahoo.com/group/weblabs-general/</x-tad-bigger></color></fixed=
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=
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</x-tad-bigger></bigger></excerpt><bigger><x-tad-bigger>Very best
wishes


Celia</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>

</x-tad-bigger></bigger>=

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