Re: [Webreports-developers] Re: Webreports technical implementation subgroup

(reduced recipient list to avoid duplicate posting)

Ideally, the system would have three layers of interface:
1. Structured / scaffolded form-based interface.
2. WSYIWYG (like Julian's)
3. Wiki-style

1 and 2 are wrappers over 3, and 1 is the most significant from our 
research perspective. So, I say we define any additional features we 
need at 3, develop 1 over it, and leave 2 for later.

As for headers vs. bold - I like headers precisely because they are 
semantic categories rather then syntactic. It used to be what HTML was 
all about, but that's a side note - please ignore it.

- Yishay

Ken Kahn wrote:

>First I think it seems like too much time is spent on the aesthetics of
>their reports because we are expecting them to generate the report in a
>very short amount of time. I think it is important for children to have
>pride in their documents - both content and form. When we write papers
>we pay attention to aesthetics - the only reason for discouraging
>children from doing the same is that they have so little time to work on
>generating reports.
>
>I can imagine an even more minimal WYSIWYG editor than Yishay suggested.
>How important are headings and tables? Maybe even lists aren't so
>important. Headings, tables, lists, etc. are semantic categories and
>they overlap heavily with font size, bold/italic, and position. If you
>want a header then just center some text and use big and bold. If you
>want a table then just use space or tabs - who needs those lines? My
>minimal editor would support links, inserting objects (pictures,
>applets, etc), and font control. Not much more. I think the editor
>Julian showed wasn't much more than this - was it?
>
>On the other hand if the kids really have so little time then maybe
>Jakob is right and they should just fill in some form to get a web
>report.
>
>Best,
>
>-ken
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Yishay Mor" <y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]>
>To: "Jakob Tholander" <jakobth-auIyqT/[email protected]>
>Cc: <webreports-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>;
><webreports-uedesign-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:00 PM
>Subject: [Webreports-developers] Re: Webreports technical implementation
>subgroup
>
>
>  
>
>>I absolutely agree. (both with the content, and with the
>>    
>>
>classification,
>  
>
>>which is why I added the design group to the addressies)
>>
>>On our 1st attempt at having kids write a report we used MS word.
>>    
>>
>Kids
>  
>
>>spent most of the time selecting background colours, fonts, etc. Not
>>that styling and personalization is not important, but it should go
>>    
>>
>only
>  
>
>>so far as it is not counter-productive.  I don't know where that point
>>is, but IMHO the basic wikimarkup options are more or less what we
>>want.  If we had a WYSIWYG editor, it should only go as far as that.
>>i.e., 3-4 levels of headings, lists, links tables and embedding media.
>>
>>- Yishay
>>
>>Jakob Tholander wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Actually I think that a WISYWIG editor could have the same effects
>>>      
>>>
>as
>  
>
>>>a script-like editing, i.e. spending too much time on the actual
>>>editing (how to  make their reports look nice) rather than
>>>      
>>>
>supporting
>  
>
>>>the kids in thinking about the content of what they are reporting.
>>>What I believe the kids will need is some kind of structured support
>>>(in the form of dialogues or templates) for creating their reports
>>>and  we really should draw on the quite extensive CSCL research from
>>>CSILE/Knowledge Forum people on this kind of scaffolding.
>>>
>>>Of course this is primarily an issue for the "design group" but I
>>>      
>>>
>will
>  
>
>>>definitely not be able to stay out of the discussion ;-)
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Jakob
>>>
>>>
>>>At 15:48 2003-09-17 +0100, you wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>What R & C wanted was a WYSIWYG editor, which could be overlaid on
>>>>top of the Wiki.  I think it was agreed that anything other than
>>>>developing on top of JSPWiki would be too resource demanding.
>>>>        
>>>>
>You'd
>  
>
>>>>have to build all the engines from scratch, which are 10 times more
>>>>complicated than the interface.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>**********************************************************************
>>Yishay Mor
>>   http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=4381&4381_0=7303
>>   y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]  Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964
>>   AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: yishaym-/[email protected]; ICQ: 179772099
>>
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>>    
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>
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>  
>

-- 
**********************************************************************
Yishay Mor
	   http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=4381&4381_0=7303
	   y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]  Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964 
	   AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: yishaym-/[email protected]; ICQ: 179772099
	   
	   If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post:
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