Re: [Fwd: auto-translation]

Very well put.

I definitely agree with your last sentence. As a matter of fact, I 
suspect that meaning is changed whenever it is transmitted as text, even 
without translation. I also see you point about "language-independence". 
I think that's one of the great things about ToonTalk, and for the 
matter, about maths: a sequence is the same sequence in any language 
(unless you use Roman or Chinese numerals, in which case its still the 
same sequence, but ...)

Nevertheless, there's some text in the webreports that children (or 
researchers) post. Some of it is explanations, some of it personal 
impressions, some of it questions. Automatic translation gives funny 
results, but in fact - precisely because of the common underlying  
meanings related to the activities which we are engaged in - it is 
understandable.

I'd like to keep this discussion at a pragmatic, rather than theoretic, 
level. The Portuguese kids are working on the same activity sequence as 
ours. They are publishing reports in their language, and I want our kids 
to comment on those reports. How do we facilitate this?

best,

- Yishay

ylva fernaeus wrote:

>I feel a bit confused about this discussion. I have always understood the
>fact that children do not understand each others languages as one of the
>most interesting challenges in this project, and also the main argument for
>developing these new "language-independent" tools (dynamic models) for
>children to communicate through.
>
>The models that students create could (and should) in themselves be highly
>communicative and interesting for students to share. Look for instance at
>how the games in the playground project evolved as a direct result from
>exchanging the projects across nations. As I understood it did the fact that
>children could not describe their projects in words mean that the design
>process got more focused on the actual workings of the projects. Knowing
>that people will not be able to read your instructions can be a wonderful
>reason for being more explicit in your design. Hence, language differencies
>may actually enrich the process, and may not only have to be something to
>try and get rid of.
>
>However, I agree that it could be good to introduce some "language
>independent" way for students to give feedback on each others projects. A
>simple interface with pre-phrased comments such as: "I really like your
>project", "I think I saw a bug", "I did't understand", etc might be enough
>for this purpose? The producer of the project gets these comments (and
>perhaps a modified version of his/her project) and the project continues to
>evolve based on this.
>
>My opinnion is that meanings always change when translating texts (whether
>the translator is a teacher or a computer).
>
>/ylva
>  
>

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Yishay Mor
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