RE: [Fwd: auto-translation]

I agree with Ylva - we should use dynamic models to help children communicat=
e
with each other. After all, kids don't read that much while working on webla=
bs.

My idea is that they want to read the minimal in order to understand what to=
 do
or how to interact. So, maybe an option of several sentences is enough. If a
kid can choose between 5-6 sentences (and maybe not just one but more, so th=
ey
can say several things: like =ABI like you report=BB and =ABcan you show me =
the
steps=BB). Maybe we should make the tutorial a rule of explaining work, inst=
ead
of writing.

I know that if there's an option to translate between languages, we will gai=
n
something. Kids will be abble to understand everyting. But the translation h=
as
to be good. On the other way, and since they don't like that much to read,
maybe that's more usefull for researchers (I can read what Ylva as written t=
o
her students.) And, between researchers, I think that we have written the mo=
re
important documents in english, to share with each other.

So, if it's not very complicated to get a decent translation, let's do it. I=
t
ift's very complicated, maybe we should open the discussion to the WL comunn=
ity
to find out if this translation option is really going to be useful.

Raquel


But maybe the option of choose between

I think that artefacts created by the kids and

Citando ylva fernaeus <ylva-auIyqT/[email protected]>:

> I feel a bit confused about this discussion. I have always understood the
> fact that children do not understand each others languages as one of the
> most interesting challenges in this project, and also the main argument fo=
r
> developing these new "language-independent" tools (dynamic models) for
> children to communicate through.
>
> The models that students create could (and should) in themselves be highly
> communicative and interesting for students to share. Look for instance at
> how the games in the playground project evolved as a direct result from
> exchanging the projects across nations. As I understood it did the fact th=
at
> children could not describe their projects in words mean that the design
> process got more focused on the actual workings of the projects. Knowing
> that people will not be able to read your instructions can be a wonderful
> reason for being more explicit in your design. Hence, language differencie=
s
> may actually enrich the process, and may not only have to be something to
> try and get rid of.
>
> However, I agree that it could be good to introduce some "language
> independent" way for students to give feedback on each others projects. A
> simple interface with pre-phrased comments such as: "I really like your
> project", "I think I saw a bug", "I did't understand", etc might be enough
> for this purpose? The producer of the project gets these comments (and
> perhaps a modified version of his/her project) and the project continues t=
o
> evolve based on this.
>
> My opinnion is that meanings always change when translating texts (whether
> the translator is a teacher or a computer).
>
> /ylva
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: webreports-uedesign-admin-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> > [mailto:webreports-uedesign-admin-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of
> > Yishay Mor
> > Sent: den 14 januari 2004 11:47
> > To: WebReports
> > Subject: [Webreports-uedesign] [Fwd: auto-translation]
> >
> >
> > Jesper suggested we open this issue up for everyone to comment on.
> >
> > In a nutshell, I suggested that there will be some kind of control on
> > each page, which would send it to be translated by an automatic service,
> > such as google or bablefish.
> > My suggestion was primarily based on the fact that I use these services
> > daily to read webreports written in other languages.
> >
> > Jesper doubted the quality of the translation, and thought that not
> > linking to a service is better than linking to one that makes us look ba=
d.
> >
> > - Yishay
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: =09auto-translation
> > Date: =09Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:20:10 +0000
> > From: =09Yishay Mor <yishaym-pAvbn/[email protected]>
> > Reply-To: =09y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]
> > To: =09Jesper Holmberg <jesperh-auIyqT/[email protected]>
> > CC: =09Gordon Simpson <g.simpson-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We want to start having kids comment on each other's reports. Since
> > everyone writes in their native languages, this means we need
> > translation. The number of reports is already so large that manual
> > translation of personal reports is not an option. IMHO, having a link to
> > a translation service is the least of possible evils. For short reports
> > it actually can be useful (I've tried it several times).
> >
> > How much of an issue is it to add a translation box, say, under the
> > favourites? I think http://babelfish.altavista.com have a javascript
> > snippet you simply cut & paste..
> >
> > best,
> >
> > - Yishay
> >
> > --
> > **********************************************************************
> > Yishay Mor
> >
> > http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=3D4381&4381_0=3D7303
> > =09   y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]  Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964
> > =09   AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: yishaym-/[email protected]; ICQ: 179772099
> >
> > =09   If this helped you, please take the time to rate the
> > value of this post:
> > =09   http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=3Dyishaym
> > **********************************************************************
> > celebrating 100 years of excellence in education
> > =09=09www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > **********************************************************************
> > Yishay Mor
> >
> > http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=3D4381&4381_0=3D7303
> > =09   y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]  Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964
> > =09   AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: yishaym-/[email protected]; ICQ: 179772099
> >
> > =09   If this helped you, please take the time to rate the
> > value of this post:
> > =09   http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=3Dyishaym
> > **********************************************************************
> > celebrating 100 years of excellence in education
> > =09=09www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary
> >
> >
> >
> >
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