Re: Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31
Gordon Rainsford <[email protected]> Sun, 16 Sep 2018 08:51:46 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.bridge.laws |
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--===============1467584511== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_FC4C7014-8118-45A7-B28B-23F47B2105C0_" --_FC4C7014-8118-45A7-B28B-23F47B2105C0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The problem with allowing LHO to accept an intentional change of call after= having already called is, how long after would you allow this? Until the e= nd of the auction? Until the player has bid again on the next round? Or unt= il partner has called? And on what do you base this view? I think it=E2=80=99s clear that it wasn=E2=80=99t envisaged that LHO might = wish to accept an intentional change that was introduced AFTER LHO had alre= ady called. And if it were allowed what would be allowed to LHO in the way = of changing the first call, considering it was not made OVER the attempted = substitute call? What of other calls that may also have been made in the au= ction? I agree with you that I would welcome the WBFLC clarifying the position. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Sven Pran Sent: 16 September 2018 02:49 To: 'Volker Walther'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 Well then - Let us analyze the consequences of the view by Gordon and EBL = TD forum. Obviously we must start with Law 25B1 which says: A substituted call not permitted by A may be accepted by the offender=E2=80= =99s LHO. (It is accepted if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first ca= ll is then withdrawn, the second call stands and the auction continues (Law= 26 may apply).=20 There can be no doubt that North may accept the substituted 3H bid by West,= and in fact has accepted it by bidding 3S after the substitution. (His ori= ginal pass was before the substitution and thus no acceptance of it.) Did North violate any law with this action? (If so then which law?) If we instead had started with the 3NT bid by West being accepted as uninte= nded we had been in Law 25A territory.=20 West would then have had the undisputed right to substitute 3H for his 3NT = bid, and North would have the undisputed right to subsequently withdraw his= pass and bid 3S in turn, as Law 25A6 says: If a substitution is allowed the LHO may withdraw any call he made over the= first call. Information from the withdrawn call is authorized to his side = and unauthorized to the opponents. I have no doubt that the intention of WBFLC must have been to let an offend= er's LHO enjoy the privilege specified in Law 25A6 also when an intended ca= ll is withdrawn and substituted. =20 And I am convinced that if this situation is brought to the attention of WB= FLC we shall have an immediate clarification to the effect that Law 25A6 ap= plies also under Law 25B. -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P=C3=A5 vegne av Volke= r Walther Sendt: l=C3=B8rdag 15. september 2018 16.48 Til: [email protected] Emne: Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 Hello Sven, I think we nearly agree how to handle the situation, but it is = not the official line. Gordon and the EBL TD forum argued, that we are in law 25 because West obvi= ously tried to replace his bid. To decide whether we are in 25A or in 25B, = we have to know West's intention. As soon as we decide that it was an inten= ded replacement, we are stuck to 25B and away from 31. (I do agree to that point) There is no such thing like 25A6 in 25B. So we do not have any speciial ins= truction, how to deal with North's first call (the "pass"). Furthermore Gordon told us: Lack of this instruction lead the forum to the = conclusion, that West's intended change of a call may no longer be accepted= by North, when he made a call ("pass") after the replaced bid (3NT). (I do not agree in this point) So, they argued, the replacement 3H has to be withdrawn. If 3H has to be wi= thdrawn, we have to withdraw 3S as well. If North was no longer allowed to = accept the change by bidding over it, he became an offending side when he m= ade the illegal 3S bid. We do have laws for all the withdrawn bids (16C, = 26, 11). They are leading us to a split-score as described. I do not like the result for several reasons. 1.) It is breaking the basic rule: "Whenever my RHO makes a call, I may acc= ept it and treat it as regular. There will be no rectification." 2.) It depends on West's hidden intention whether North's 3S bid is lawful. 3.a) We do not have special rules to deal with an action (e.g. the 3S bid) that is made by North after the infraction. 3.b) Applying general rules 26, 16C and 11 will mostly generate a split-sc= ore as final result, which likely is away from the normal result without th= e cancelled calls. I would prefer to avoid the situation by following this line: According to 25A1 North may accept the substitution of 3NT by 3H by bidding= intentionally 3S over 3H - no matter whether he made a bid over 3NT. In th= is case 3NT is withdrawn (L25B1) and the following "pass" is withdrawn as w= ell. 3H was an irregularity. 3S was an action of the non offending side, La= w 11 A applies. Especially North is loosing his rights to rectify West's ir= regularity. 16C and 26 do no longer apply to the 3NT bid. Bidding 3S after = 3H is allowed by 25A1. North is not an offending side for the purposes of 1= 6C and 26 with respect to the withdrawn "pass". (We have laws, telling us how to deal with this call!) If the TD has been called before North made the 3S bid, the TD should expla= in Law 25B, especially consequences of accepting the 3H bid by making a cal= l over it as above, according to 9B1(c). He will also have to tell that No= rth may not accept the replacement. If he does so, we have the usual rectif= ications for the 3H. Following this line we have have established the principle from 1.) and hav= e consistent rulings in 25A, 27, 31 and 25B. Your way to handle the situation as either 25A , or 31 and 27 leads to a si= milar result. My impression is that you try do bend the law to save the ba= sic principle 1). But we both are not not in accordance with Gordons and the forums line. Volker Am 14.09.2018 um 23:48 schrieb Sven Pran: >=20 >=20 > I don't understand this: >=20 > Which Law(s) does the TD apply after stating the facts: Law 25A, Law=20 > 25B, Law 27A or Law 29A? (Other?) >=20 > He may (incorrectly) apply Law25A (Unintended Call), or (correctly) apply= Law 25B (Call Intended), or Laws 27A1 and 29A (insufficient bid out of tur= n at partner's turn to call).=20 >=20 > In either case North has with his 3S bid accepted the 3H bid by West, the= auction continues from this 3S bid and there is no further rectification. >=20 > On what ground (which Law?) do you state "3H and 3S are withdrawn".=20 >=20 > When you state that E and W both passes is this a voluntary action or=20 > a rectification ordered by the TD (Which Law?) >=20 > I believe you have overlooked Law 25A6 when you state that there is a lea= d-penalty against South? >=20 > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P=C3=A5 vegne av=20 > Volker Walther > Sendt: fredag 14. september 2018 21.08 > Til: Gordon Rainsford <[email protected]> > Kopi: BLML <[email protected]> > Emne: ***SPAM*** Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 >=20 > The original description arouse from a discussion between some TDs. IT wa= s no real case. >=20 > To make the last question more precise lets look at the following hypoth= etical case: >=20 > Dealer: W > Vul.: E/W >=20 > W N E S > 2NT P 3T(a) P (a) Puppet-Stayman > 3NT* p * not alerted, meant to show H >=20 > West replaces swiftly 3NT by 3H, afterwards North replaces his Pass by 3= S, while South is already calling for the TD. >=20 > TD states the following facts: > Wests 3NT was intended, and he replaced it, when he saw that his partner = did not alert. North believed that West did replace an unintended 3NT bid b= y 3H, and changed his bid, believing it was his right according to 25A. >=20 > 3H and 3S are withdrawn.=20 > E and W both pass, and there is a lead-penalty against South (L26) >=20 > North plays low from spade: KQ9876. Dummy has Jx and 4 hearts. > South wins with the Ace. He is not allowed to return his small spade, an= d 3NT is made with 2 overtricks. The field was in 4H+1, only one pair playe= d 3NT-2. >=20 > We will have the following results: > for NS 0 MP (as played) > for EW 1 MP (according to L11) >=20 > OK, we have the laws to handle this. But the outcome is not very satisfyi= ng. Wests forbidden intended change of a call leads to a much worse result = for N/S than the replacement of an accidental, unintended call would have d= one, and from norths point of view, both cases look alike. >=20 > Volker Walther >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 14.09.2018 um 17:39 schrieb Gordon Rainsford: >> I think this is not clear from the original description. What action=20 >> are you positing that North has taken prior to the TD being called? >> And in what way are you suggesting they may have gained from it? >> >> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:22 PM Volker Walther <[email protected]=20 >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> For me the biggest problem is that North may have believed to be in = a >> 25A case. If 25B does not allow to accept the change of call, the >> situation becomes hard to analyse: >> >> The withdrawn 3 Spade bid becomes UI to South and we have a lead pen= alty >> against him. But for E/W we have to apply 11A; they are not allowed = to >> benefit, neither from the knowledge about the intended and withdrawn= 3S, >> nor from the lead penalty. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 13.09.2018 um 16:56 schrieb Sven Pran: >> > Because once North calls (for instance Pass) over the 3NT bid by >> West it >> > becomes East that is in turn to call (unless the 3NT bid is >> accepted as >> > an unintended call). >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > In this case the 3NT bid by West clearly did not satisfy the >> conditions >> > for an unintended call so the 3H bid by West at this time is a=20 >> call at >> > East=E2=80=99s turn to call, i.e. a call out of turn. >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > Law 25A applies to unintended calls, but notice that the final re= sult >> > will be the same whether North (incorrectly) is given the >> opportunity to >> > accept the 3H bid as a change of his 3NT bid or (correctly) use hi= s >> > right to accept the 3H bid out of turn. The main difference is wha= t >> > effect the irregularity may have on the (following) auction and/or >> play. >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > In either case North is allowed to eventually make his own desired >> 3S bid. >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > *Fra:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> *P=C3=A5 ve= gne av* >> > Gordon Rainsford >> > *Sendt:* torsdag 13. september 2018 16.01 >> > *Til:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > *Kopi:* BLML <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > *Emne:* Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > Why would you want to pretend something was a call out of turn whe= n it >> > isn't? The terms of the original question told us that it was an >> > intended change of call. >> > >> > =20 >> > >> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:27 AM Sven Pran <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >> > >> > Why not apply Law 31B1? >> > West's changed bid of 3H is actually a call out of rotation at >> > East's turn >> > to call, this changed call stands and North is now in turn to >> call. >> > North is free to bid 3S and East may then make any legal call. >> > Law 16C2 now applies. >> > (North do not have the option to refuse West's change of call!= ) >> > >> > -----Opprinnelig melding----- >> > Fra: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> P= =C3=A5 >> vegne av >> > Volker >> > Walther >> > Sendt: onsdag 12. september 2018 17.53 >> > Til: blml <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> >> > Emne: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 >> > >> > When does the right (25B1) to accept an intended change of >> call cease? >> > >> > The bidding >> > >> > W N E S >> > 2NT P 3T(a) P (a) Puppet-Stayman >> > 3NT* p(1) (*) Meant to show 5 hearts. >> > >> > Now West remembers that he has to bid 3H to show his hearts an= d >> > replaces his >> > bid. North wants to accept this change; he is wants to bid 3S. >> > >> > >> > If 3NT had been unintended, we are in law 25A, 3S is an >> allowed bid. >> > p(1) is cancelled and becomes UI to E/W. >> > Especially we have 25A1, telling us that a replacement is >> allowed as >> > long >> > partner did not bid, and we 25A6, telling us how to deal with >> > p(1): it may be withdrawn. >> > >> > >> > If 3H is meant to be an intended bid that should be given in >> the next >> > round, we are in 31 (and 27). Again N is allowed to bid 3S, b= ut >> > this time >> > p(1) is not cancelled and it is AI to E/W. >> > >> > But now we are somewhere between 25B1, 25B2 and 31. >> > 31.C tells us, that a bid OOR shall be treated as a change of >> call, >> > according to law 25 as long as LHO did not call. >> > >> > 25B1. is telling us, that a substition may be accepted; >> unfortunately it >> > does not tell when this right is ceasing. >> > Did North forfeit his right to accept a change of call, when >> he called >> > p(1) over 3NT, throwing us do 25B2, or is acceptance according= to >> > 25B1 still >> > possible? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Volker Walther >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Blml mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> > >> > >> > >> > --- >> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> > https://www.avg.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Blml mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> > >> > >> > >> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3D= link&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient> >> > Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >> > >> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3D= link&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient> >> > >> > >> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Blml mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> > >> >> >> --=20 >> Volker Walther >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> >=20 >=20 > -- > Volker Walther > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >=20 -- Volker Walther _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --_FC4C7014-8118-45A7-B28B-23F47B2105C0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sc= hemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/of= fice/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta ht= tp-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name= =3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:#954F72; text-decoration:underline;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla= ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>The problem with allowing LHO to acc= ept an intentional change of call after having already called is, how long = after would you allow this? Until the end of the auction? Until the player = has bid again on the next round? Or until partner has called? And on what d= o you base this view?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>I think it=E2=80=99s clear that it wasn=E2=80=99t envisaged th= at LHO might wish to accept an intentional change that was introduced AFTER= LHO had already called. And if it were allowed what would be allowed to LH= O in the way of changing the first call, considering it was not made OVER t= he attempted substitute call? What of other calls that may also have been m= ade in the auction?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>I agree with you that I would welcome the WBFLC clarifying the= position.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Ma= il</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div sty= le=3D'mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0p= t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padd= ing:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Sven Pran</a><br= ><b>Sent: </b>16 September 2018 02:49<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:bridg= [email protected]">'Volker Walther'</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">blml= @rtflb.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31</= p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Well= then -=C2=A0 Let us analyze the consequences of the view by Gordon and EBL= TD forum. Obviously we must start with Law 25B1 which says:</p><p class=3D= MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>A substituted call not = permitted by A may be accepted by the offender=E2=80=99s LHO. (It is accept= ed if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first call is then withdrawn, t= he second call stands and the auction continues (Law 26 may apply). </p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>There can be no= doubt that North may accept the substituted 3H bid by West, and in fact ha= s accepted it by bidding 3S after the substitution. (His original pass was = before the substitution and thus no acceptance of it.)</p><p class=3DMsoNor= mal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Did North violate any law wit= h this action? (If so then which law?)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> <= /o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If we instead had started with the 3NT bid by= West being accepted as unintended we had been in Law 25A territory. </p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>West would then have had the undisputed right to substit= ute 3H for his 3NT bid, and North would have the undisputed right to subseq= uently withdraw his pass and bid 3S in turn, as Law 25A6 says:</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If a substitution is= allowed the LHO may withdraw any call he made over the first call. Informa= tion from the withdrawn call is authorized to his side and unauthorized to = the opponents.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN= ormal>I have no doubt that the intention of WBFLC must have been to let an = offender's LHO enjoy the privilege specified in Law 25A6 also when an inten= ded call is withdrawn and substituted.=C2=A0 </p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>= </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>And I am convinced that if this situat= ion is brought to the attention of WBFLC we shall have an immediate clarifi= cation to the effect that Law 25A6 applies also under Law 25B.</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Opprinnelig mel= ding-----</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Fra: [email protected] <blml-boun= [email protected]> P=C3=A5 vegne av Volker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>S= endt: l=C3=B8rdag 15. september 2018 16.48</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Til: blm= [email protected]</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Emne: Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A = and 31</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>He= llo Sven, I think we nearly agree how to handle the situation, but it is no= t the official line.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>Gordon and the EBL TD forum argued, that we are in law 25 beca= use West obviously tried to replace his bid. To decide whether we are in 25= A or in 25B, we have to know West's intention. As soon as we decide that it= was an intended replacement, we are stuck to 25B and away from 31.</p><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal>(I do agree to that point)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>There i= s no such thing like 25A6 in 25B. So we do not have any speciial instructio= n, how to deal with North's first call (the "pass").</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>Furthermore Gordon told us: Lack of this instruction lead the = forum to the conclusion, that West's intended change of a call may no longe= r be accepted=C2=A0 by=C2=A0 North, when he made a call ("pass") = after the replaced bid (3NT).</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>(I do not agree in th= is point)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>So, they argued, the replacement 3H has t= o be withdrawn. If 3H has to be withdrawn, we have to withdraw 3S as well. = If North was no longer allowed to accept the change by bidding over it, he = became an offending side when he made the illegal 3S bid.=C2=A0 We do have = laws for all the withdrawn bids=C2=A0 (16C, 26, 11). They are leading us to= a split-score as described.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><= p class=3DMsoNormal>I do not like the result for several reasons.</p><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal>1.) It is breaking the basic rule: "Whenever my RHO mak= es a call, I may accept it and treat it as regular. There will be no rectif= ication."</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>2.) It depends on West's hidden inte= ntion whether North's 3S bid is lawful.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>3.a) We do = not have special rules to deal with an action (e.g. the 3S</p><p class=3DMs= oNormal>bid) that is made by North after the infraction.</p><p class=3DMsoN= ormal>3.b) Applying general rules 26, 16C and 11=C2=A0 will mostly generate= a split-score as final result, which likely is away from the normal result= without the cancelled calls.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal>I would prefer to avoid the situation by following thi= s line:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>A= ccording to 25A1 North may accept the substitution of 3NT by 3H by bidding = intentionally 3S over 3H - no matter whether he made a bid over 3NT. In thi= s case 3NT is withdrawn (L25B1) and the following "pass" is withd= rawn as well. 3H was an irregularity. 3S was an action of the non offending= side, Law 11 A applies. Especially North is loosing his rights to rectify = West's irregularity. 16C and 26 do no longer apply to the 3NT bid. Bidding = 3S after 3H is allowed by 25A1. North is not an offending side for the purp= oses of 16C and 26 with respect to the withdrawn "pass".</p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>(We have laws, telling us how to deal with this call!)</p><= p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If the TD has= been called before North made the 3S bid, the TD should explain Law 25B, e= specially consequences of accepting the 3H bid by making a call over it=C2= =A0 as above, according to 9B1(c). He will also have to tell that North may= not accept the replacement. If he does so, we have the usual rectification= s for the 3H.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal>Following this line we have have established the principle from 1.) an= d have consistent rulings in 25A, 27, 31 and 25B.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><= o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMs= oNormal>Your way to handle the situation as either 25A , or 31 and 27 leads= to a similar result. My impression is that you try do bend the law to=C2= =A0 save the basic principle 1).</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>But we both are not=C2=A0 not in accordance with Go= rdons and the forums line.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Volker</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p>= </p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nb= sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal= ><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Am 14.09.2018 um 23:48 schrieb S= ven Pran:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>> I don't understand this:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&g= t; </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Which Law(s) does the TD apply after stati= ng the facts: Law 25A, Law </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> 25B, Law 27A or La= w 29A?=C2=A0 (Other?)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal= >> He may (incorrectly) apply Law25A (Unintended Call), or (correctly) a= pply Law 25B (Call Intended), or Laws 27A1 and 29A (insufficient bid out of= turn at partner's turn to call). </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>> In either case North has with his 3S bid accepted the 3H= bid by West, the auction continues from this 3S bid and there is no furthe= r rectification.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= On what ground (which Law?)=C2=A0 do you state "3H and 3S are withdra= wn". </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> When = you state that E and W both passes is this a voluntary action or </p><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal>> a rectification ordered by the TD (Which Law?)</p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> I believe you have overl= ooked Law 25A6 when you state that there is a lead-penalty against South?</= p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> -----Opprinnelig = melding-----</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Fra: [email protected] <b= [email protected]> P=C3=A5 vegne av </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Vo= lker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Sendt: fredag 14. september 2018 = 21.08</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Til: Gordon Rainsford <gordonr60@gmai= l.com></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Kopi: BLML <[email protected]></p= ><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Emne: ***SPAM*** Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25= A and 31</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> The ori= ginal description arouse from a discussion between some TDs. IT was no real= case.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> To=C2=A0 = make the last question more precise lets look at the following hypothetical= case:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Dealer: W= </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Vul.: E/W</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>> W=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 N=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 E=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 S</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= 2NT=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 P=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3T(a)=C2=A0=C2=A0 P=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 (a) Puppet-Stayman</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> 3NT*=C2=A0=C2= =A0 p=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * not alerted, meant to show H</p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> West=C2=A0 replaces swiftl= y 3NT by 3H, afterwards North replaces his Pass by 3S, while South is alrea= dy calling for the TD.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>> TD states the following facts:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Wests 3N= T was intended, and he replaced it, when he saw that his partner did not al= ert. North believed that West did replace an unintended 3NT bid by 3H, and = changed his bid, believing it was his right according to 25A.</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> 3H and 3S are withdrawn. </= p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> E and W both pass, and there is a lead-penalty = against South (L26)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&= gt; North plays low from spade: KQ9876. Dummy has Jx=C2=A0=C2=A0 and 4 hear= ts.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> South wins with the Ace. He is not allowed= =C2=A0 to return his small spade, and 3NT is made with 2 overtricks. The fi= eld was in 4H+1, only one pair played 3NT-2.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> <= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> We will have the following results:</p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>> for NS 0 MP (as played)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> for= EW 1 MP (according to L11)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMso= Normal>> OK, we have the laws to handle this. But the outcome is not ver= y satisfying. Wests forbidden intended change of a call leads to a much wor= se result for N/S than the replacement of an accidental, unintended call wo= uld have done, and from norths point of view, both cases look alike.</p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Volker Walther</p><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Am 14.09= .2018 um 17:39 schrieb Gordon Rainsford:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>> I= think this is not clear from the original description. What action </p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>>> are you positing that North has taken prior to t= he TD being called?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>> And in what way are yo= u suggesting they may have gained from it?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= <o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at = 4:22 PM Volker Walther <[email protected] </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&= gt;><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 For me the biggest problem is that North may have believed to be in = a</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 25A case. If 25B= does not allow to accept the change of call, the</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&= gt;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 situation becomes hard to analyse:</p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The withdrawn 3 Spade bid becomes UI to South and = we have a lead penalty</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 against him. But for E/W we have to apply 11A; they are not allowed = to</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 benefit, neithe= r from the knowledge about the intended and withdrawn 3S,</p><p class=3DMso= Normal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 nor from the lead penalty.</p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><= o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><= o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Am 13.09.2018 um 16:56 schrieb Sven Pran:</p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > Because once North ca= lls (for instance Pass) over the 3NT bid by</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 West it</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > becomes East that is in turn to call (unless the 3NT b= id is</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 accepted as<= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > an unintended= call).</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 </p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>= >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > In this case the 3NT bid by West clea= rly did not satisfy the</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 conditions</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = > for an unintended call so the 3H bid by West at this time is a </p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 call at</p><p class=3DMs= oNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > East=E2=80=99s turn to call, = i.e. a call out of turn.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > Law 25A applies to= unintended=C2=A0 calls, but notice that the final result</p><p class=3DMso= Normal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > will be the same whether North= (incorrectly) is given the</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 opportunity to</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 > accept the 3H bid as a change of his 3NT bid or (correctly) use= his</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > right to= accept the 3H bid out of turn. The main difference is what</p><p class=3DM= soNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > effect the irregularity may = have on the (following) auction and/or</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 play.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ;=C2=A0 </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><= p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > In either case No= rth is allowed to eventually make his own desired</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&= gt;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3S=C2=A0 bid.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>&= gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ; *Fra:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <blml-bounces@rtflb.= org <mailto:[email protected]>> *P=C3=A5 vegne av*</p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > Gordon Rainsford</p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > *Sendt:* torsdag 13= . september 2018 16.01</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 > *Til:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > *Kopi:* BLML <B= [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= ;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > *Emne:* Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A= and 31</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 </p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>= >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > Why would you want to pretend somethi= ng was a call out of turn when it</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > isn't? The terms of the original question told us that= it was an</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > in= tended change of call.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > On Thu, Sep 13, 20= 18 at 9:27 AM Sven Pran <[email protected]</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>&= gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:[email protected]></p><p class=3D= MsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > <mailto:[email protected]= t <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&= gt;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Why not apply Law 31B1?</p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 West's changed bid of 3H is actually a call out of rotation at</p= ><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 East's turn</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to call, this changed call stands and Nort= h is now in turn to</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 call.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 North is free to bid 3S and East may then make any le= gal call.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Law 16C2 now applies.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (North do not have t= he option to refuse West's change of call!)</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -----Opprinnelig melding-----</p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Fra: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>= </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:blml-b= [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>></p><p class=3DMs= oNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <b= [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]></p><p class=3DM= soNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:[email protected]= <mailto:[email protected]>>> P=C3=A5</p><p class=3DMsoNor= mal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 vegne av</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>&= gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Volker</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sendt: onsdag 12. september 2018 17.53</p><p class=3DMso= Normal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Til: b= lml <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]></p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:blm= [email protected]>>></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Emne: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and = 31</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= When does the right (25B1) to accept an intended change of</p><p class=3DM= soNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 call cease?</p><p class=3DMsoNorm= al>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The bidding</p><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0W=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 N=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 E=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 S</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2NT=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 P=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3= T(a)=C2=A0=C2=A0 P=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (a) Puppet-Stayman</p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3NT*=C2= =A0 p(1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (*) Meant to show 5 hearts.</p><p class=3DMsoNorma= l>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Now West remembers that = he has to bid 3H to show his hearts and</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 replaces his</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = bid. North wants to accept this change; he is wants to bid 3S.</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>= >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If 3NT had been unintend= ed, we are in law 25A, 3S is an</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 allowed bid.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 p(1) is cancelled and becomes UI = to E/W.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Especially we have 25A1, telling us that a replacement i= s</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 allowed as</p><p= class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 long</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 partner did not=C2=A0 bid, and we 25A6, telling us= how to deal with</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 p(1): it may be withdrawn.</p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If 3H=C2=A0 is meant to be an int= ended bid that should be given in</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the next</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 round,=C2=A0 we are in 31 (and 27). Aga= in N is allowed to bid 3S, but</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 this time</p><p class=3DMsoNormal= >>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 p(1) is not = cancelled and it is AI to E/W.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 But now we are somewhere between 25B1, 25B2 an= d 31.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 31.C tells us, that a bid OOR shall be treated as a chan= ge of</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 call,</p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 according to law 25 as long as LHO did not call.</p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 25B1. is telling us, = that a substition may be accepted;</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 unfortunately it</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 does not tell when this rig= ht is ceasing.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Did North forfeit his right to accept a change of= call, when</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 he cal= led</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0p(1) over 3NT, throwing us do 25B2, or is acceptance accordi= ng to</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 25B1 still</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 possible?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal= >>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ;</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 --</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &g= t;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Volker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _____________________= __________________________</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Blml mailing list</p><p class=3DMsoN= ormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Blml@rt= flb.org <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:[email protected]>= ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3D= MsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= ;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This email has been chec= ked for viruses by AVG.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://www.avg.com</p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _____________________= __________________________</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Blml mailing list</p><p class=3DMsoN= ormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Blml@rt= flb.org <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]</p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:[email protected]>= ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3D= MsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= ;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_so= urce=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>= </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <http://www.avg.com/email-= signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-e= mail&utm_content=3Demailclient></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >= ; <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>= ;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________</p><p class=3DM= soNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > Blml mailing list</p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > [email protected] <mail= to:[email protected]></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3DMsoNorm= al>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><o= :p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -- </p><p class=3DMsoNormal= >>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Volker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&g= t;>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ____________________________________________= ___</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Blml mailing l= ist</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email protected]= <mailto:[email protected]></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3DMso= Normal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class= =3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> --</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>= > Volker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> __________________________= _____________________</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Blml mailing list</p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>> [email protected]</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> http://l= ists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>> Blml mailing list</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> Blml@= rtflb.org</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listi= nfo/blml</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> <= /o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>--<= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Volker Walther</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>____________= ___________________________________</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Blml mailing li= st</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>[email protected]</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>http://li= sts.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:= p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Blml mailing list</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Blml@rtfl= b.org</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml<= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>= --_FC4C7014-8118-45A7-B28B-23F47B2105C0_-- --===============1467584511== Content-Type: text/plain; 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