Re: lack of explanation of convention
"Bill Kemp" <[email protected]> Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:33:46 +0800
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This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0035819005== Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0150_01D45C00.062488C0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01D45C00.062488C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0151_01D45C00.062488C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0151_01D45C00.062488C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As In a World Championship your Bridge in India players could easily??? be = required (or permitted) to lodge System Cards to a website where they could= be viewed and defences organised before the event(s). I have no sympathy for players who, given timely information choose not to = use it. Cheers bill From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bridgein= India Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:42 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Bridge Laws Mailing List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Blml] lack of explanation of convention Here is the link (copied from WBS bulletin) as attachment. Now almost every bid has variations. Take 1C=3D may be short, Better minor,= Precision or Blue club, May be a NT hand less than 15 pts . 1 Diamond could be min 4 cards, better minor,Precision 1D and also Could be= 17-18 points (Graded point count), 1 NT could be 13-15, 15-17, strong not necessarily balanced (may have singl= eton) etc etc. 2C, 2D, 2H all have variations. WHAT IS NATURAL for each Bid so that that particular bid does not need aler= t? So almost all bids need alert. It takes more time. Time limit for a match i= s expected to be followed. Delay in one board may have to be adjusted with = fast bidding later on with possible damage to side Convention cards are mandatory. But how many look before starting? Time is = too short between sessions. Looking at an opp CC during bidding may give i= nformation to his screen mate. Experts here in Forum may have other ideas= too. With Regards Dr Raghavan.P.S. [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://Bridgeinworld.com <https://rb.tc/3RD_7#http://Bridgeinworld.com> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 9:14 AM Steve Willner <[email protected] <mailto:swi= [email protected]> > wrote: On 2018-10-02 1:41 PM, BridgeinIndia wrote: > During WBS Rosenblum, in Rd of 64, Stayman was bid but opp did not know > that was a variant of usual. Defense could have been different if known. = > Ruling was that at this level, one is expected to know there are > variations of Conventions. Is there a writeup anywhere giving details? At first glance, this looks like the "poor Eddie Kantar" case from many years ago, but the outcome was the opposite. In that case, an alert was specifically required and not given, so Mr. Kantar was given redress. Nowadays it would probably be a weighted score, but that wasn't allowed at the time. > So hereafter every one has to ask details for every convention bid. It > would be time consuming. It also may give unauthorised information to > parner. There is no time to look at CC . In a World Championship?!! I play at a far lower level, but I've never been in a game where there wasn't time to look at the System Card. The real problem is that a SC might not give full details of Stayman variations. I don't know about the WBF card in particular, though. As others have written, if details make a difference, you have to ask. That's hardly new. _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ------=_NextPart_001_0151_01D45C00.062488C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content= =3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft= Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#defaul= t#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} =2Eshape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0 {mso-style-name:msonormal; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} =2EMsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-AU link=3Dblue vli= nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'm= so-fareast-language:EN-US'>As In a World Championship your Bridge in India = players could easily??? be required (or permitted) to lodge System Cards to= a website where they could be viewed and defences organised before the eve= nt(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast= -language:EN-US'>I have no sympathy for players who, given timely informati= on choose not to use it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st= yle=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM= soNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>bill =C2=A0<o:p></o:p><= /span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><= o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US>From:= </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> [email protected] <blml-bounces@rtfl= b.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>BridgeinIndia<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, Octob= er 04, 2018 12:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Cc:</b> Bridge L= aws Mailing List <[email protected]><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Blml] lack = of explanation of convention<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p= > </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:= "Tahoma",sans-serif'>Here is the link (copied from WBS bulletin) as attachm= ent. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style= =3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div= ><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Now a= lmost every bid has variations. Take 1C=3D may be short, Better minor,Preci= sion or Blue club, May be a NT hand less than 15 pts .<o:p></o:p></span></p= ></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-s= erif'>1 Diamond could be min 4 cards, better minor,Precision 1D and also Co= uld be 17-18 points (Graded point count), <o:p></o:p></span></p></div>= <div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>1= NT could be 13-15, 15-17, strong not necessarily balanced (may have single= ton) etc etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s= pan style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>2C, 2D, 2H all have var= iations. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s= tyle=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>WHAT IS NATURAL for each Bid so th= at that particular bid does not need alert? <o:p></o:p></span></p></di= v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'= >So almost all bids need alert. It takes more time. Time limit for a match = is expected to be followed. Delay in one board may have to be adjusted with= fast bidding later on with possible damage to side<o:p></o:p></span></p></= div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-seri= f'>Convention cards are mandatory. But how many look before starting? Time = is too short between sessions. Looking at an opp CC during bidding ma= y give information to his screen mate. Experts here in For= um may have other ideas too. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o= :p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>= <div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>With Regards <br>Dr R= aghavan.P.S. </b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><sp= an style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:Bridgeinindia@gm= ail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></span></b><b><span s= tyle=3D'font-size:9.5pt'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><= p class=3DMsoNormal><b><a href=3D"https://rb.tc/3RD_7#http://Bridgeinworld.= com" target=3D"_blank">http://Bridgeinworld.com</a> </b><o:p></o= :p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>= </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div= ></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><span style= =3D'border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><img border=3D0 width=3D1 he= ight=3D1 style=3D'width:.0104in;height:.0104in' id=3D"_x0000_i1025" src=3D"= cid:[email protected]" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span= ><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><= p class=3DMsoNormal>On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 9:14 AM Steve Willner <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:sol= id #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0= in'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 2018-10-02 1:41 PM, BridgeinIndia wrote:<br>>= ; During WBS Rosenblum, in Rd of 64, Stayman was bid but opp did not know <= br>> that was a variant of usual. Defense could have been different if k= nown. <br>> Ruling was that at this level, one is expected to know there= are <br>> variations of Conventions.<br><br>Is there a writeup anywhere= giving details?<br><br>At first glance, this looks like the "poor Edd= ie Kantar" case from many <br>years ago, but the outcome was the oppos= ite. In that case, an alert was <br>specifically required and not giv= en, so Mr. Kantar was given redress. <br>Nowadays it would probably be a we= ighted score, but that wasn't allowed <br>at the time.<br><br>> So herea= fter every one has to ask details for every convention bid. It <br>> wou= ld be time consuming. It also may give unauthorised information to <br>>= parner. There is no time to look at CC .<br><br>In a World Championship?!!= I play at a far lower level, but I've never <br>been in a game where= there wasn't time to look at the System Card. The <br>real problem i= s that a SC might not give full details of Stayman <br>variations. I = don't know about the WBF card in particular, though.<br><br>As others have = written, if details make a difference, you have to ask. <br>That's hardly n= ew.<br>_______________________________________________<br>Blml mailing list= <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><= br><a href=3D"http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml" target=3D"_blan= k">http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockqu= ote></div></div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table style=3D"border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;"> <tr> <td style=3D"width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href=3D"http://www= =2Eavg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaig= n=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http= s://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt= =3D"" width=3D"46" height=3D"29" style=3D"width: 46px; height: 29px;" /></= a></td> <td style=3D"width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-size: = 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-= free. <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_= source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D= "_blank" style=3D"color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a> </td> </tr> </table><a href=3D"#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width=3D"1" heigh= t=3D"1"> </a></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_001_0151_01D45C00.062488C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01D45C00.062488C0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <[email protected]> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIf IiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/wAALCAABAAEBAREA/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEB AQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1Fh ByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZ WmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXG x8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oACAEBAAA/APZK/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01D45C00.062488C0-- --===============0035819005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --===============0035819005==--