Re: lack of explanation of convention
Adam Wildavsky <[email protected]> Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:54:03 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.bridge.laws |
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| Message-ID | <CAHkRE_3L230_P7mZ3aE5HNTNfaoKokWnpmGzs3So9eRUO9puaQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============0390186338== Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0000000000007ab2cc0577718c0f" --0000000000007ab2cc0577718c0f Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007ab2c90577718c0e" --0000000000007ab2c90577718c0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I saw a useful suggestion recently. If your opponents profer an explanation by naming a convention, ask them "Do you play it the way we play it?" On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 7:24 AM Bill Kemp <[email protected]> wrote: > As In a World Championship your Bridge in India players could easily??? be > required (or permitted) to lodge System Cards to a website where they could > be viewed and defences organised before the event(s). > > I have no sympathy for players who, given timely information choose not to > use it. > > Cheers > > bill > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of * > BridgeinIndia > *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:42 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* Bridge Laws Mailing List <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Blml] lack of explanation of convention > > > > Here is the link (copied from WBS bulletin) as attachment. > > > > Now almost every bid has variations. Take 1C= may be short, Better > minor,Precision or Blue club, May be a NT hand less than 15 pts . > > 1 Diamond could be min 4 cards, better minor,Precision 1D and also Could > be 17-18 points (Graded point count), > > 1 NT could be 13-15, 15-17, strong not necessarily balanced (may have > singleton) etc etc. > > 2C, 2D, 2H all have variations. > > WHAT IS NATURAL for each Bid so that that particular bid does not need > alert? > > So almost all bids need alert. It takes more time. Time limit for a match > is expected to be followed. Delay in one board may have to be adjusted with > fast bidding later on with possible damage to side > > Convention cards are mandatory. But how many look before starting? Time is > too short between sessions. Looking at an opp CC during bidding may give > information to his screen mate. Experts here in Forum may have other > ideas too. > > > > > *With Regards Dr Raghavan.P.S. * > > *[email protected] <[email protected]>* > > *http://Bridgeinworld.com <https://rb.tc/3RD_7#http://Bridgeinworld.com> * > > > > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > > > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 9:14 AM Steve Willner <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 2018-10-02 1:41 PM, BridgeinIndia wrote: > > During WBS Rosenblum, in Rd of 64, Stayman was bid but opp did not know > > that was a variant of usual. Defense could have been different if known. > > Ruling was that at this level, one is expected to know there are > > variations of Conventions. > > Is there a writeup anywhere giving details? > > At first glance, this looks like the "poor Eddie Kantar" case from many > years ago, but the outcome was the opposite. In that case, an alert was > specifically required and not given, so Mr. Kantar was given redress. > Nowadays it would probably be a weighted score, but that wasn't allowed > at the time. > > > So hereafter every one has to ask details for every convention bid. It > > would be time consuming. It also may give unauthorised information to > > parner. There is no time to look at CC . > > In a World Championship?!! I play at a far lower level, but I've never > been in a game where there wasn't time to look at the System Card. The > real problem is that a SC might not give full details of Stayman > variations. I don't know about the WBF card in particular, though. > > As others have written, if details make a difference, you have to ask. > That's hardly new. > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free. > www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > <#m_-5300120771621691129_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > --0000000000007ab2c90577718c0e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I saw a useful suggestion recently. If your opponents prof= er an explanation by naming a convention, ask them "Do you play it the= way we play it?"</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"= >On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 7:24 AM Bill Kemp <<a href=3D"mailto:diggadog@ii= net.net.au">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-AU" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class= =3D"m_-5300120771621691129WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>As In = a World Championship your Bridge in India players could easily??? be requir= ed (or permitted) to lodge System Cards to a website where they could be vi= ewed and defences organised before the event(s).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p= class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I have no sympathy for players who, given timely= information choose not to use it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal"><span>Cheers<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>bi= ll =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2= =A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</= span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" ta= rget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:blml-bounc= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> <b>On Behalf= Of </b>BridgeinIndia<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:42 PM<b= r><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">swillne= [email protected]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Bridge Laws Mailing List <<a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>><br><b>Subject:</b= > Re: [Blml] lack of explanation of convention<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= ><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Here is the link= (copied from WBS bulletin) as attachment.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></= div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma&quo= t;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Now almost e= very bid has variations. Take 1C=3D may be short, Better minor,Precision or= Blue club, May be a NT hand less than 15 pts .<u></u><u></u></span></p></d= iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma"= ;,sans-serif">1 Diamond could be min 4 cards, better minor,Precision 1D and= also Could be 17-18 points (Graded point count),=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span= ></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tah= oma",sans-serif">1 NT could be 13-15, 15-17, strong not necessarily ba= lanced (may have singleton) etc etc.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><d= iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",san= s-serif">2C, 2D, 2H=C2=A0 all have variations.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></= p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma= ",sans-serif">WHAT IS NATURAL for each Bid so that that particular bid= does not need alert?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"= MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">So alm= ost all bids need alert. It takes more time. Time limit for a match is expe= cted to be followed. Delay in one board may have to be adjusted with fast b= idding later on with possible damage to side<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>= <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",s= ans-serif">Convention cards are mandatory. But how many look before startin= g? Time is too short between sessions. Looking at an opp CC=C2=A0 during bi= dding may give information to his screen mate.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Experts her= e in Forum may have other ideas too.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><d= iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",san= s-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div= ><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= b>With Regards=C2=A0<br>Dr Raghavan.P.S.=C2=A0</b><u></u><u></u></p></div><= div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:black"><= a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Bridgeinindia@g= mail.com</a></span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0</spa= n></b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><a href=3D"htt= ps://rb.tc/3RD_7#http://Bridgeinworld.com" target=3D"_blank">http://Bridgei= nworld.com</a>=C2=A0=C2=A0</b><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><span style=3D"border:solid windowtext 1= .0pt;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"1" height=3D"1" style=3D"width= :.0104in;height:.0104in" id=3D"m_-5300120771621691129_x0000_i1025" src=3D"c= id:[email protected]" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span>= <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div= ><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 9:14 AM Steve Willner &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= </a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;bor= der-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;ma= rgin-right:0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 2018-10-02 1:41 PM, BridgeinIndia= wrote:<br>> During WBS Rosenblum, in Rd of 64, Stayman was bid but opp = did not know <br>> that was a variant of usual. Defense could have been = different if known. <br>> Ruling was that at this level, one is expected= to know there are <br>> variations of Conventions.<br><br>Is there a wr= iteup anywhere giving details?<br><br>At first glance, this looks like the = "poor Eddie Kantar" case from many <br>years ago, but the outcome= was the opposite.=C2=A0 In that case, an alert was <br>specifically requir= ed and not given, so Mr. Kantar was given redress. <br>Nowadays it would pr= obably be a weighted score, but that wasn't allowed <br>at the time.<br= ><br>> So hereafter every one has to ask details for every convention bi= d. It <br>> would be time consuming. It also may give unauthorised infor= mation to <br>> parner. There is no time to look at CC .<br><br>In a Wor= ld Championship?!!=C2=A0 I play at a far lower level, but I've never <b= r>been in a game where there wasn't time to look at the System Card.=C2= =A0 The <br>real problem is that a SC might not give full details of Stayma= n <br>variations.=C2=A0 I don't know about the WBF card in particular, = though.<br><br>As others have written, if details make a difference, you ha= ve to ask. <br>That's hardly new.<br>__________________________________= _____________<br>Blml mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br><a href=3D"http://lists.rtflb.org/mail= man/listinfo/blml" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinf= o/blml</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"m_-53001207= 71621691129DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br> <table style=3D"border-top:1px solid #d3d4de"> <tr> <td style=3D"width:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href=3D"http://www.avg= .com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campa= ign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D"_blank"><img src= =3D"https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.p= ng" alt=3D"" width=3D"46" height=3D"29" style=3D"width:46px;height:29px"></= a></td> <td style=3D"width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;fo= nt-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href= =3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3D= link&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" style=3D"c= olor:#4453ea" target=3D"_blank">www.avg.com</a> </td> </tr> </table><a href=3D"#m_-5300120771621691129_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9= FDF2" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"> </a></div></div>___________________________= ____________________<br> Blml mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank">http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml</a><br> </blockquote></div> --0000000000007ab2c90577718c0e-- --0000000000007ab2cc0577718c0f Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <16641ed01bc4ce8e91> X-Attachment-Id: 16641ed01bc4ce8e91 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIf IiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/wAALCAABAAEBAREA/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEB AQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1Fh ByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZ WmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXG x8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oACAEBAAA/APZK/9k= --0000000000007ab2cc0577718c0f Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <> X-Attachment-Id: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIf IiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/wAALCAABAAEBAREA/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEB AQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1Fh ByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZ WmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXG x8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oACAEBAAA/APZK/9k= --0000000000007ab2cc0577718c0f-- --===============0390186338== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --===============0390186338==--