Re: Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9
"uurtamo ." <[email protected]> Fri, 8 May 2020 15:55:46 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.devel.go |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CADg0iNCApPAT=j2U+EJmrnYD5mSmKJ2goQ5zvwMwCVS3Vn1Lmw@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============3104218047105969096== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087238205a52ae639" --00000000000087238205a52ae639 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And this has no book, right? So it should be badly abused by a very good book? s. On Fri, May 8, 2020, 3:28 PM David Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm running a new account of KataGo that is set to bias towards aggressiv= e > or difficult moves now (the same way it does in 19x19 handicap games), to > see what the effect is. Although, it seems like some people have stopped > running their bots. Still maybe it will be interesting for the > remaining players, or any others who decide to re-turn-on their bot for a > little while. :) > > It seems like some fraction of the time, it now opens on 5-5 as black, > which is judged as worse than 4-4 in an even game, but presumably is more > difficult to play. I suspect it will now start to lose a noticeable numbe= r > of games now due to overplaying, and there's a good chance it does much > worse overall. Even so, I'm curious what will happen, and what the draw > rate will be. Suddenly having some 5-5 openings should certainly add some > variety to the games. > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM David Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Having it matter which of the stones you capture there is fascinating. >> Thanks for the analysis - and thanks for "organizing" this 9x9 testing >> party. :) >> >> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:06 PM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> If White recaptures the Ko, then Black can play at White's 56, capture >>> the stone, and win by 2 points. >>> >>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:02 PM Shawn Ligocki <[email protected]> wrote= : >>> >>>> Thanks for sharing the games, R=C3=A9mi! >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:27 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]= > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In this game, Crazy Stone won using a typical Monte Carlo trick: >>>>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf >>>>> On move 27, it sacrificed a stone. According to Crazy Stone, the game >>>>> would have been a draw had Aya just re-captured it. But Aya took the = bait >>>>> and captured the other stone. Crazy Stone's evaluation became instant= ly >>>>> winning after this, the sacrificed stone serving as a threat for the >>>>> winning ko fight, 18 moves later. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Wow, I did not imagine how that move would be useful later! But the >>>> very end is confusing to my human brain, couldn't White move 56 retake= the >>>> ko and win it? It seems like Black only has one real ko threat left (J= 4 >>>> maybe). But White also has one huge threat left (D3), so it seems like >>>> White should win this ko and then be about 4 ahead with komi. Am I >>>> missing something? >>>> >>>> -Shawn >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Computer-go mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > --00000000000087238205a52ae639 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">And this has no book, right? So it should be badly abused= by a very good book?<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">s.</div>= </div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">= On Fri, May 8, 2020, 3:28 PM David Wu <<a href=3D"mailto:lightvector@gma= il.com">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-= left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm running a new account of KataGo that is = set to bias towards aggressive or difficult moves now (the same way it does= in 19x19 handicap games),=C2=A0to see what the effect is. Although, it see= ms like some people have stopped running their bots.=C2=A0 Still maybe it will be interesting for the remaining=C2=A0players, or any o= thers who decide to re-turn-on their bot for a little while. :)<div><br></d= iv><div>It seems like some fraction of the time, it now opens on 5-5 as bla= ck, which is judged as worse than 4-4 in an even game, but presumably is mo= re difficult to play. I suspect it will now start to lose a noticeable numb= er of games now due to overplaying,=C2=A0and there's a good chance it d= oes much worse overall. Even so, I'm curious what will happen, and what= the draw rate will be. Suddenly having some 5-5 openings should certainly = add some variety to the games.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d= iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM David W= u <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor= eferrer">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D= "gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2= 04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Having it matter which of th= e stones you capture there is fascinating. Thanks for the analysis - and th= anks for "organizing" this 9x9 testing party. :)</div><br><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 20= 20 at 12:06 PM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= " target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>> wrote:= <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr= ">If White recaptures the Ko, then Black can play at White's 56, captur= e the stone, and win by 2 points.<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:02 PM Shawn L= igocki <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n= oreferrer">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20= 4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for s= haring the games, R=C3=A9mi!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt= r">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:27 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <<a href=3D"mailto:re= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">remi.coulom@gmail= .com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg= b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>In this game, Crazy = Stone won using a typical Monte Carlo trick:<br></div><div><a href=3D"http:= //www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf" target=3D"= _blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2= 020/05/07/997390.sgf</a></div><div></div><div>On move 27, it sacrificed a s= tone. According to Crazy Stone, the game would have been a draw had Aya jus= t re-captured it. But Aya took the bait and captured the other stone. Crazy= Stone's evaluation became instantly winning after this, the sacrificed= stone serving as a threat for the winning ko fight, 18 moves later.</div><= /div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Wow, I did not imagine how that move = would be useful later! But the very end is confusing to my human brain, cou= ldn't White move 56 retake the ko and win it? It seems like Black only = has one real ko threat left (J4 maybe). But White also has one huge threat = left (D3), so it seems like White should win this ko and then be about 4 ah= ead with komi. Am I missing=C2=A0something?</div><div><br></div><div>-Shawn= </div></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> Computer-go mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor= eferrer">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore= ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinf= o/computer-go</a><br> </blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br> Computer-go mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor= eferrer">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore= ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinf= o/computer-go</a><br> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br> Computer-go mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor= eferrer">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore= ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinf= o/computer-go</a><br> </blockquote></div> --00000000000087238205a52ae639-- --===============3104218047105969096== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go --===============3104218047105969096==--