Re: Question about dealing with content creation for large worlds

--===============1203973389==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1edfc9793fd04cf6ccbe3

--e89a8fb1edfc9793fd04cf6ccbe3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>
> I looked into Carmack's megatexturing approach, but it seems too
> unnecesarily complex IMO, plus there are no tools available that artists
> can use commercially?


There exists a commercial implementation; it's called "id Tech 5" if I
remember right :-)

You really have two questions here:
1) Do you want unique texturing of everything?
2) What kind of view distance, level of detail, and memory requirements do
you have?

The problem with game art has always been, not creating "the art," but
making the very best use of available technology. That has always been
about knowing where the player will be, what the player will view, and what
can be re-used versus not. Rust decals, stucco normal maps, trim, rocks,
etc.

By the way, the "brute force" solution of unique texturing everywhere is
something that milsim and Google Earth does, and has done for a long time.
It requires lots and lots and LOTS of storage, and still locks worse than a
game for any particular place on Earth, because it's not highly tuned for a
particular play-through path. Yet, if you're doing, say, flight simulators,
those techniques will work well.


Sincerely,

Jon Watte


--
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to
the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all."
~ Adopted by U.S. Congress, June 22, 1942



On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Juan Linietsky <[email protected]> wrote:

> This is a semi on-top and semi-offtopic question. I can't find much
> information on creating pipelines for creating 3D content for large worlds.
> I'm finding that artists modelling the "shape" of such words (primitives)
> of cities, buildings or even natural places such as canyons or valleys is
> doen pretty quickly, they usually do it in a matter of days. Artists
> painting texturing and detail to them is also done quickly in nowadays
> tools, but the absolute bottleneck is UV mapping.
> The guys modeling take a long time uvmapping everything and artists are
> often not happy with the resulting UVs. Unwrapping architetural geometry in
> most 3D apps produces suboptimal results. There is also the problem of
> texture streaming, for which to achieve a good quality, textures should
> somehow be split evenly around world areas like quadrants or octants i
> think.
>
> I looked into Carmack's megatexturing approach, but it seems too
> unnecesarily complex IMO, plus there are no tools available that artists
> can use commercially?
> So, I'm looking at some intermediate step, where a tool, (or at least an
> algorithm),  can take a giant world (like a city), untextured and either:
> a) Let artists paint directly on it (kind of like ptex?), then flatten and
> export to zoned models with textures and uvs.
> b) Just slice up the world in zones/octants, generate uniform uvs and
> export?
>
> In any case I'm really ignorant on how this works in large scale games, so
> hence my question.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Juan Linietsky
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>
>

--e89a8fb1edfc9793fd04cf6ccbe3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">I looked into Carmack&#39;s megatexturing approach, but it=
 seems too unnecesarily complex IMO, plus there are no tools available that=
 artists can use commercially?</blockquote>
<br>There exists a commercial implementation; it&#39;s called &quot;id Tech=
 5&quot; if I remember right :-)<div><br></div><div>You really have two que=
stions here:</div><div>1) Do you want unique texturing of everything?</div>
<div>2) What kind of view distance, level of detail, and memory requirement=
s do you have?</div><div><br></div><div>The problem with game art has alway=
s been, not creating &quot;the art,&quot; but making the very best use of a=
vailable technology. That has always been about knowing where the player wi=
ll be, what the player will view, and what can be re-used versus not. Rust =
decals, stucco normal maps, trim, rocks, etc.</div>
<div><br>By the way, the &quot;brute force&quot; solution of unique texturi=
ng everywhere is something that milsim and Google Earth does, and has done =
for a long time. It requires lots and lots and LOTS of storage, and still l=
ocks worse than a game for any particular place on Earth, because it&#39;s =
not highly tuned for a particular play-through path. Yet, if you&#39;re doi=
ng, say, flight simulators, those techniques will work well.</div>
<div><br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>Jon Watte<br><br><br>--<br>&quot;I pledge al=
legiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic f=
or which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for al=
l.&quot;<br>
~ Adopted by U.S. Congress, June 22, 1942<br><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Juan L=
inietsky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
This is a semi on-top and semi-offtopic question. I can&#39;t find much inf=
ormation on creating pipelines for creating 3D content for large worlds.<di=
v>I&#39;m finding that artists modelling the &quot;shape&quot; of such word=
s (primitives) of cities, buildings or even natural places such as canyons =
or valleys is doen pretty quickly, they usually do it in a matter of days. =
Artists painting texturing and detail to them is also done quickly in nowad=
ays tools, but the absolute bottleneck is UV mapping.=C2=A0</div>

<div>The guys modeling take a long time uvmapping everything and artists ar=
e often not happy with the resulting UVs. Unwrapping architetural geometry =
in most 3D apps produces suboptimal results. There is also the problem of t=
exture streaming, for which to achieve a good quality, textures should some=
how be split=C2=A0evenly around world areas like quadrants or octants i thi=
nk.</div>

<div><br></div><div>I looked into Carmack&#39;s megatexturing approach, but=
 it seems too unnecesarily complex IMO, plus there are no tools available t=
hat artists can use commercially?</div><div>So, I&#39;m looking at some int=
ermediate step, where a tool, (or at least an algorithm), =C2=A0can take a =
giant world (like a city), untextured and either:</div>

<div>a) Let artists paint directly on it (kind of like ptex?), then flatten=
 and export to zoned models with textures and uvs.</div><div>b) Just slice =
up the world in zones/octants, generate uniform uvs and export?</div><div>

<br></div><div>In any case I&#39;m really ignorant on how this works in lar=
ge scale games, so hence my question.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div=
><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Juan Li=
nietsky</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
</font></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Sweng-Gamedev@list=
s.midnightryder.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnig=
htryder.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/=
sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8fb1edfc9793fd04cf6ccbe3--

--===============1203973389==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com

--===============1203973389==--