Re: Re: Clarity of Orders

That sounds like a really cool solution (especially with the "orders as written" 
section)... I say when the free computerised translators can handle this, we 
switch to this plan ;-)

Joe

On 25 Jul 2005 at 20:21, Deepak Mohoni wrote:

One way out may be to send the orders in our respective native languages, 
and have them translated by competent translators.

Players from English-speaking countries could use the grammar checker that's 
bundled in with Microsoft Word. Of course, they must take care to ensure 
that the default country setting is correctly set to UK or US - depending on 
where the GM is from.

Cheers,
Deepak



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders


> We non-native English speakers doesn't always knows when we shoulds puts
> an s after the verb. It seem to me it aren't the best of ideas to 
> disallows orders
> on such finer grammatic points. :-)
>
> But then again, having one way of adjudicating for English-speakers and 
> one
> for the rest of us may not make a lot of sense either.
>
> Joe
>
> On 25 Jul 2005 at 9:57, [email protected] wrote:
>
> This "s"?  Maybe so.  I do not know if this is an order to move to the 
> province to to support a unit holding in the province.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rsetzer <[email protected]>
> Date: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:21 am
> Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders
>
>> Not always and not in all cases. Which is the point of asking.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen Worthy wrote:
>> > Both are ambiguous despite linguistic issues, simply because
>> people
>> > have been arguing both cases.
>> >
>> > This is why I e-mail players to clarify these things.  Perhaps
>> you'd
>> > have time to do that?
>> >
>> > Stephen
>> >
>> > --- In [email protected], "David E. Cohen"
>> <zendip18@o...>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>I was leaning that way before, and on reflection I have
>> >
>> > concluded "to
>> >
>> >>supports" is just ambiguous, both grammatically and dip-wise.  I
>>
>> >
>> > would say
>> >
>> >>that "to support", on the other hand, is not, and can be part of
>> a
>> >
>> > valid
>> >
>> >>support order.
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>From: "Michael D. Ashland" <warlord@m...>
>> >>To: <[email protected]>
>> >>Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:19 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Clarity of Orders
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Adam,
>> >>>
>> >>>Is English your first language? It may not be for the player in
>> >>>question, and the "s" on "supports" could be a typo. I'm not an
>> >
>> > English
>> >
>> >>>major by any stretch of the imagination, and only Libby knows
>> >
>> > for sure,
>> >
>> >>>but I would not rule these orders as ambiguous unless the
>> player
>> >
>> > had
>> >
>> >>>been warned about this type of thing earlier in the game.
>> >>>
>> >>>I know there are "strict constructionists" out there, and
>> that's
>> >
>> > one of
>> >
>> >>>the reasons we like human GM's around here.
>> >>>
>> >>>And for the record, I'm not trying to determine the player's
>> >
>> > intent. I
>> >
>> >>>do not care what his or her intent was. I'm taking a poorly
>> >
>> > written
>> >
>> >>>order, and deciding that it only has one possible meaning,
>> using
>> >
>> > just my
>> >
>> >>>own particular brand of logic, in a case taken out of context,
>> >
>> > and with
>> >
>> >>>some circumstances assumed.
>> >>>
>> >>>Regards to all,
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike A.
>> >>>
>> >>>Adam Kuehn wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Michael D. Ashland wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>You are going to get opinions both ways, but "to" is a
>> >
>> > preposition, not
>> >
>> >>>>>a verb, and as such, the presence of the word "support(s)" (a
>> >
>> > transitive
>> >
>> >>>>>verb in this case) in the orders would settle the question in
>> >
>> > my mind.
>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>Case 6 is an infinitive, read literally, so I can see how your
>> >>>>argument might hold there.  But I do not understand your
>> >
>> > willingness
>> >
>> >>>>to parse the phrase "to supports" down into its components and
>> >
>> > then
>> >
>> >>>>rule that "supports" is somehow more important because of
>> which
>> >
>> > part
>> >
>> >>>>of speech it represents.  By itself, "to" has a clear meaning.
>> >>>>("[U]sed as a function word to indicate movement", if you want
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >>>>exact, pedantic phrase from Merriam-Webster online.)  By itself,
>> >>>>"supports" has an equally clear, but opposite, meaning.  Their
>> >>>>concatenation, "to supports", is grammatically nonsensical.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I just don't see how the part of speech of the component words
>> >
>> > helps
>> >
>> >>>>you divine the intent of the person writing the order.  I'm not
>> >>>>trying to be overly picky, I'm just genuinely interested in
>> >
>> > hearing
>> >
>> >>>>why you think the part of speech helps, given that each word is
>> >>>>independently successful in conveying unambiguous meaning.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>In my view, as likely as not we are looking at a cut-and-paste
>> >
>> > error.
>> >
>> >>>>The player intended one thing at first, and then tried to cut
>> in
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >>>>opposite thing but failed to delete the superceded material.  But
>> >>>>which material is to be superceded?  There's just no way to know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>-Adam
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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