Re: Re: Clarity of Orders

Absolutely. Grammar uber alles.

Cheers,
Deepak


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders


> That sounds like a really cool solution (especially with the "orders as 
> written"
> section)... I say when the free computerised translators can handle this, 
> we
> switch to this plan ;-)
>
> Joe
>
> On 25 Jul 2005 at 20:21, Deepak Mohoni wrote:
>
> One way out may be to send the orders in our respective native languages,
> and have them translated by competent translators.
>
> Players from English-speaking countries could use the grammar checker 
> that's
> bundled in with Microsoft Word. Of course, they must take care to ensure
> that the default country setting is correctly set to UK or US - depending 
> on
> where the GM is from.
>
> Cheers,
> Deepak
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders
>
>
>> We non-native English speakers doesn't always knows when we shoulds puts
>> an s after the verb. It seem to me it aren't the best of ideas to
>> disallows orders
>> on such finer grammatic points. :-)
>>
>> But then again, having one way of adjudicating for English-speakers and
>> one
>> for the rest of us may not make a lot of sense either.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2005 at 9:57, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> This "s"?  Maybe so.  I do not know if this is an order to move to the
>> province to to support a unit holding in the province.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: rsetzer <[email protected]>
>> Date: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:21 am
>> Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders
>>
>>> Not always and not in all cases. Which is the point of asking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stephen Worthy wrote:
>>> > Both are ambiguous despite linguistic issues, simply because
>>> people
>>> > have been arguing both cases.
>>> >
>>> > This is why I e-mail players to clarify these things.  Perhaps
>>> you'd
>>> > have time to do that?
>>> >
>>> > Stephen
>>> >
>>> > --- In [email protected], "David E. Cohen"
>>> <zendip18@o...>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>I was leaning that way before, and on reflection I have
>>> >
>>> > concluded "to
>>> >
>>> >>supports" is just ambiguous, both grammatically and dip-wise.  I
>>>
>>> >
>>> > would say
>>> >
>>> >>that "to support", on the other hand, is not, and can be part of
>>> a
>>> >
>>> > valid
>>> >
>>> >>support order.
>>> >>
>>> >>----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >>From: "Michael D. Ashland" <warlord@m...>
>>> >>To: <[email protected]>
>>> >>Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:19 PM
>>> >>Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Clarity of Orders
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>Adam,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Is English your first language? It may not be for the player in
>>> >>>question, and the "s" on "supports" could be a typo. I'm not an
>>> >
>>> > English
>>> >
>>> >>>major by any stretch of the imagination, and only Libby knows
>>> >
>>> > for sure,
>>> >
>>> >>>but I would not rule these orders as ambiguous unless the
>>> player
>>> >
>>> > had
>>> >
>>> >>>been warned about this type of thing earlier in the game.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I know there are "strict constructionists" out there, and
>>> that's
>>> >
>>> > one of
>>> >
>>> >>>the reasons we like human GM's around here.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>And for the record, I'm not trying to determine the player's
>>> >
>>> > intent. I
>>> >
>>> >>>do not care what his or her intent was. I'm taking a poorly
>>> >
>>> > written
>>> >
>>> >>>order, and deciding that it only has one possible meaning,
>>> using
>>> >
>>> > just my
>>> >
>>> >>>own particular brand of logic, in a case taken out of context,
>>> >
>>> > and with
>>> >
>>> >>>some circumstances assumed.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Regards to all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Mike A.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Adam Kuehn wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>Michael D. Ashland wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>You are going to get opinions both ways, but "to" is a
>>> >
>>> > preposition, not
>>> >
>>> >>>>>a verb, and as such, the presence of the word "support(s)" (a
>>> >
>>> > transitive
>>> >
>>> >>>>>verb in this case) in the orders would settle the question in
>>> >
>>> > my mind.
>>> >
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>Case 6 is an infinitive, read literally, so I can see how your
>>> >>>>argument might hold there.  But I do not understand your
>>> >
>>> > willingness
>>> >
>>> >>>>to parse the phrase "to supports" down into its components and
>>> >
>>> > then
>>> >
>>> >>>>rule that "supports" is somehow more important because of
>>> which
>>> >
>>> > part
>>> >
>>> >>>>of speech it represents.  By itself, "to" has a clear meaning.
>>> >>>>("[U]sed as a function word to indicate movement", if you want
>>> >
>>> > the
>>> >
>>> >>>>exact, pedantic phrase from Merriam-Webster online.)  By itself,
>>> >>>>"supports" has an equally clear, but opposite, meaning.  Their
>>> >>>>concatenation, "to supports", is grammatically nonsensical.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I just don't see how the part of speech of the component words
>>> >
>>> > helps
>>> >
>>> >>>>you divine the intent of the person writing the order.  I'm not
>>> >>>>trying to be overly picky, I'm just genuinely interested in
>>> >
>>> > hearing
>>> >
>>> >>>>why you think the part of speech helps, given that each word is
>>> >>>>independently successful in conveying unambiguous meaning.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>In my view, as likely as not we are looking at a cut-and-paste
>>> >
>>> > error.
>>> >
>>> >>>>The player intended one thing at first, and then tried to cut
>>> in
>>> >
>>> > the
>>> >
>>> >>>>opposite thing but failed to delete the superceded material.  But
>>> >>>>which material is to be superceded?  There's just no way to know.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>-Adam
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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