Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions
Ray Setzer <[email protected]> Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:00:17 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.gm |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--N7QN7HLlO2hAQjiM0jO1wdZnpZzXg7sAIqFwPZ5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Kuehn wrote: > Trout wrote: > >> The >> question that seems to divide everyone though is which side >> of the fence you fall on - is an incorrect unit designation >> invalid or ambiguous. > > There's absolutely nothing ambiguous about it. "F Lon" is not the same unit > as "A Lon". For that matter Lon is not the same unit as A Lon either. > The real problem is what to do with it. Everyone knows it is an easy > mistake to make, and it is even easy to overlook when proofreading. Humans > just aren't very good at that level of detail. We tend to see the "Lon", > because that is the part receiving the action, and we overlook the unit type > because we know perfectly well that the unit is not changing. So just > because "A Lon" is an unambiguous reference, does that mean we should treat > it as invalid if we can see that "F Lon" is the unit actually on the board? > > There's no pat answer to that question. It is a judgment call, pure and > simple. The rulebook itself doesn't resolve the question adequately (as > many debates on this list have shown). The rulebook talks about "illegal" > orders, and "order[s] which admit[] of two meanings", and legal orders that > are "badly written" but have only one meaning. But it never actually says > that an unambiguous order must ALWAYS be interpreted precisely as written. > Therefore, this is something house rules should cover so that players know > what to expect. If a player receives the house rules, screws up anyway, and > then moans and groans about it...well, perhaps that player should have found > a different game to begin with. I don't have much sympathy for them. > > I really think you've done everything you could in this situation. (I tend > toward the "strict constructionist" camp, myself, but I seem to be in the > minority.) > > -Adam > > > > Community email addresses: > Post message: [email protected] > Subscribe: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: [email protected] > List owner: [email protected] > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > --N7QN7HLlO2hAQjiM0jO1wdZnpZzXg7sAIqFwPZ5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <!-- Network content --> <body style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text"> <p><br> <br> Adam Kuehn wrote:<br> > Trout wrote:<br> > <br> >> The <br> >> question that seems to divide everyone though is which side <br> >> of the fence you fall on - is an incorrect unit designation <br> >> invalid or ambiguous.<br> > <br> > There's absolutely nothing ambiguous about it. "F Lon" is not the same unit<br> > as "A Lon".<br> <br> For that matter Lon is not the same unit as A Lon either.<br> <br> > The real problem is what to do with it. Everyone knows it is an easy<br> > mistake to make, and it is even easy to overlook when proofreading. Humans<br> > just aren't very good at that level of detail. We tend to see the "Lon",<br> > because that is the part receiving the action, and we overlook the unit type<br> > because we know perfectly well that the unit is not changing. So just<br> > because "A Lon" is an unambiguous reference, does that mean we should treat<br> > it as invalid if we can see that "F Lon" is the unit actually on the board?<br> > <br> > There's no pat answer to that question. It is a judgment call, pure and<br> > simple. The rulebook itself doesn't resolve the question adequately (as<br> > many debates on this list have shown). The rulebook talks about "illegal"<br> > orders, and "order[s] which admit[] of two meanings", and legal orders that<br> > are "badly written" but have only one meaning. But it never actually says<br> > that an unambiguous order must ALWAYS be interpreted precisely as written.<br> > Therefore, this is something house rules should cover so that players know<br> > what to expect. If a player receives the house rules, screws up anyway, and<br> > then moans and groans about it...well, perhaps that player should have found<br> > a different game to begin with. I don't have much sympathy for them.<br> > <br> > I really think you've done everything you could in this situation. (I tend<br> > toward the "strict constructionist" camp, myself, but I seem to be in the<br> > minority.)<br> > <br> > -Adam<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > Community email addresses:<br> > Post message: <a href="mailto:CAT23-GM%40onelist.com">CAT23-GM@onelist.<wbr>com</a><br> > Subscribe: <a href="mailto:CAT23-GM-subscribe%40onelist.com">CAT23-GM-subscribe@<wbr>onelist.com</a><br> > Unsubscribe: <a href="mailto:CAT23-GM-unsubscribe%40onelist.com">CAT23-GM-unsubscrib<wbr>e@onelist.<wbr>com</a><br> > List owner: <a href="mailto:CAT23-GM-owner%40onelist.com">CAT23-GM-owner@<wbr>onelist.com</a><br> > <br> > Shortcut URL to this page:<br> > <a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM">http://www.onelist.<wbr>com/community/<wbr>CAT23-GM</a> <br> > Yahoo! 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