Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions
[email protected] Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:00:30 +0000 (GMT)
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.gm |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--wcnBAGoChYE7pbEpVbi0vpmGTb7j6gKbQp8QXA5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The rule book (and I am talking about all the various editions, as far as I know) is silent about whether an incorrect unit type designation would, in and of itself, invalidate an order, as opposed to lack of a unit type designation, which I believe is explicitly ruled not to invalidate an order. For what it is worth, in my opinion, incorrect information is qualitatively different (worse, if you will) than missing information. ----- Original Message ----- From: The White Wolf Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:35 pm Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Requesting Other GM's Opinions To: [email protected] > Trout, > I believe the basic rules of Diplomacy state that > the first part of a written order is the unit > designation. That is the most basic building block > upon which the rest of the order is written. I, as a > GM, need to know what TYPE of unit I'm looking for, > right? > Anyway, being deployed as I am, I don't have my > rulebook here to consult, but I believe giving a unit > the WRONG type designation invalidates it. There's > nothing ambiguous about being blatantly wrong. > Besides, if you don't know what units you have on the > board (and I've run across that more than once with my > players!) what business do you have sending in orders > for them? > > The White Wolf > > > > 1b. Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions > > Posted by: "Former Trout" [email protected] > > former.trout > > Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT)) > > > > It is a little bit of a paradox. The rules state > > that not including having > > a unit designation does not invalidate the order, > > but having the wrong unit > > designation does. Considering the flack I'm > > receiving for enforcing this, I > > might seriously have to consider revising my HR's > > after all is said and > > done. > > > > However, I probably won't. I firmly believe that > > players should be > > responsible enough to know which units they have in > > which locations. And to > > double-check their orders when submitting them. I > > don't consider this to be > > too unreasonable, although by the response from > > everyone else involved most > > people do. > > > > I've actually just been accused of using my house > > rules to circumvent the > > basic rules of diplomacy. I can't see this as being > > the case though, when > > the basic rules fundamentally make a difference > > between invalid and > > ambiguous orders. The question that seems to divide > > everyone though is > > which side of the fence you fall on - is an > > incorrect unit designation > > invalid or ambiguous.. > > > > Trout. > > "In America we can say what we think, and even if we can't > think, we can say it anyhow." - Charles Kettering > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz > --David E. Cohen My Diplomacy web site: http://diplomiscellany.tripod.com/. Tired of playing against untalented players with no dedication to the game? Talk to me about membership in the Academy of Creative Destruction. More information on the group may be found at http://www3.sympatico.ca/m_strose/ACD/ACD_main.html. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --wcnBAGoChYE7pbEpVbi0vpmGTb7j6gKbQp8QXA5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <!-- Network content --> <body style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text"> <p>The rule book (and I am talking about all the various editions, as far as I know) is silent about whether an incorrect unit type designation would, in and of itself, invalidate an order, as opposed to lack of a unit type designation, which I believe is explicitly ruled not to invalidate an order.<br> <br> For what it is worth, in my opinion, incorrect information is qualitatively different (worse, if you will) than missing information.<br> <br> ----- Original Message -----<br> From: The White Wolf <br> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:35 pm<br> Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Requesting Other GM's Opinions<br> To: <a href="mailto:CAT23-GM%40yahoogroups.com">CAT23-GM@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a><br> <br> > Trout,<br> > I believe the basic rules of Diplomacy state that<br> > the first part of a written order is the unit<br> > designation. That is the most basic building block<br> > upon which the rest of the order is written. I, as a<br> > GM, need to know what TYPE of unit I'm looking for,<br> > right?<br> > Anyway, being deployed as I am, I don't have my<br> > rulebook here to consult, but I believe giving a unit<br> > the WRONG type designation invalidates it. There's<br> > nothing ambiguous about being blatantly wrong.<br> > Besides, if you don't know what units you have on the<br> > board (and I've run across that more than once with my<br> > players!) what business do you have sending in orders<br> > for them?<br> > <br> > The White Wolf<br> > <br> > <br> > > 1b. Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions<br> > > Posted by: "Former Trout" <a href="mailto:former.trout%40gmail.com">former.trout@<wbr>gmail.com</a><br> > > former.trout<br> > > Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))<br> > > <br> > > It is a little bit of a paradox. The rules state<br> > > that not including having<br> > > a unit designation does not invalidate the order,<br> > > but having the wrong unit<br> > > designation does. Considering the flack I'm<br> > > receiving for enforcing this, I<br> > > might seriously have to consider revising my HR's<br> > > after all is said and<br> > > done.<br> > > <br> > > However, I probably won't. I firmly believe that<br> > > players should be<br> > > responsible enough to know which units they have in<br> > > which locations. And to<br> > > double-check their orders when submitting them. I<br> > > don't consider this to be<br> > > too unreasonable, although by the response from<br> > > everyone else involved most<br> > > people do.<br> > > <br> > > I've actually just been accused of using my house<br> > > rules to circumvent the<br> > > basic rules of diplomacy. I can't see this as being<br> > > the case though, when<br> > > the basic rules fundamentally make a difference<br> > > between invalid and<br> > > ambiguous orders. The question that seems to divide<br> > > everyone though is<br> > > which side of the fence you fall on - is an<br> > > incorrect unit designation<br> > > invalid or ambiguous..<br> > > <br> > > Trout.<br> > <br> > "In America we can say what we think, and even if we can't <br> > think, we can say it anyhow." - Charles Kettering<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > ____________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_Luggage? GPS? Comic books? <br> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search<br> > <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz">http://search.<wbr>yahoo.com/<wbr>search?fr=<wbr>oni_on_mail&<wbr>p=graduation+<wbr>gifts&cs=<wbr>bz</a><br> > <br> <br> --David E. Cohen<br> <br> My Diplomacy web site: <a href="http://diplomiscellany.tripod.com/.">http://diplomiscell<wbr>any.tripod.<wbr>com/.</a> <br> <br> Tired of playing against untalented players with no dedication to the game? Talk to me about membership in the Academy of Creative Destruction. More information on the group may be found at <a href="http://www3.sympatico.ca/m_strose/ACD/ACD_main.html.">http://www3.<wbr>sympatico.<wbr>ca/m_strose/<wbr>ACD/ACD_main.<wbr>html.</a> <br> <br> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> <br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span> <!-- Start the section with Message In topic --> <div id="ygrp-actbar"> <span class="left"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/message/5546;_ylc=X3oDMTMzaGtkZTJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNTU2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODQ2OTUyMzcEdHBjSWQDNTU0Ng--"> Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>) </span> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvbmh0OHU4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNTU2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODQ2OTUyMzc-?act=reply&messageNum=5565"> <span class="bld"> Reply </span> (via web post) </a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdDI1M2w5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg0Njk1MjM3" class="bld"> Start a new topic </a> </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vitnav"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbzZvYW1wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMTg0Njk1MjM3">Messages</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWFnMHRzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDY5NTIzNw--">Files</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdW9iNGF2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMTg0Njk1MjM3">Photos</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzZkam83BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDY5NTIzNw--">Links</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiazRvbnA3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDY5NTIzNw--">Database</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaWVrZXY5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDY5NTIzNw--">Polls</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjlqNW5vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTg0Njk1MjM3">Members</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdWppZ2JtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDY2FsBHN0aW1lAzExODQ2OTUyMzc-">Calendar</a> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- Do not have place to put it yet --> <div id="ygrp-grft"> </div> <!-- yahoo logo --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-ft"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNHYxMDIxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzExODQ2OTUyMzc-"> <img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! 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