RE: Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions
"Adam Kuehn" <[email protected]> Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:13:10 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.gm |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
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Steph Mabie writes:
> Bear in mind that A & F are English designations for the
> generally accepted (and official) pieces of the game (Army &
> Fleet). Could "F"
> stand for "Force?" Could "A" stand for "Armada?" It is
> plausible, in either case, that the A or F could stand for
> either type of unit, and without asking the player exactly
> what he meant, the GM cannot know.
I'm sorry, but I reject this argument. Assuming you are conducting the game
in English, the "A" to mean "army" and the "F" to mean "fleet" are
explicitly defined in the rulebook. It completely stretches credibility to
assert that "A", when used as a unit designation, is somehow ambiguous.
It is reasonable to recognize, however, that unit designation mistakes are
1. relatively easy to make, and 2. hard to spot once made. Also, the
rulebook does not explicitly require the use of unit designations at all
(although all the sample orders use them). Therefore, I don't have a
problem with someone concluding it is therefore less disruptive to the game
to ignore unit designations Which is what you are doing by assuming:
> [W]hen a player names an area occupied by that player,
> no matter what unit designation is used -- he wants that unit to do
> something.
That's a legitimate human factors argument. But ambiguous? No, "A Lon" is
not ambiguous in the least. It clearly does not "admit of two meanings".
> If he happens to misorder it otherwise -- telling an army
> to move to sea, or a fleet inland, or affecting a space it can
> otherwise not affect (ie, A Lon - Ber), then fine. Poorly written?
> Very much so. Illegal? Not in my opinion.
I would hold up "A Lon - Ber" as the very definition of an illegal order.
Did I misread you?
> [O]ne of the other players (who, as it
> happened, was Edi Birsan) pointed out that since "Swe - Nor" could
> have only one possible legal interpretation, it should have been
> considered a legal move.
I want to make sure we're clear on the phrasing. "Swe - Nor" has only one
possible interpretation which results in a legal move. That's different
from saying that "Swe - Nor" has one possible legal interpretation. That
difference can be important depending upon how you construe the sentence in
the rulebook which says, "An order which admits of two meanings is not
followed." Does an order which has two or more possible interpretations,
only one of which results in a legal move, "admit of two meanings"? The
answer to that question resolves a great many misorder disputes.
Unfortunately for us, the rulebook doesn't explicitly answer it. Which is
why we have the Model House Rules.
-Adam
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<p>Steph Mabie writes: <br>
<br>
> Bear in mind that A & F are English designations for the <br>
> generally accepted (and official) pieces of the game (Army & <br>
> Fleet). Could "F"<br>
> stand for "Force?" Could "A" stand for "Armada?" It is <br>
> plausible, in either case, that the A or F could stand for <br>
> either type of unit, and without asking the player exactly <br>
> what he meant, the GM cannot know. <br>
<br>
I'm sorry, but I reject this argument. Assuming you are conducting the game<br>
in English, the "A" to mean "army" and the "F" to mean "fleet" are<br>
explicitly defined in the rulebook. It completely stretches credibility to<br>
assert that "A", when used as a unit designation, is somehow ambiguous.<br>
<br>
It is reasonable to recognize, however, that unit designation mistakes are<br>
1. relatively easy to make, and 2. hard to spot once made. Also, the<br>
rulebook does not explicitly require the use of unit designations at all<br>
(although all the sample orders use them). Therefore, I don't have a<br>
problem with someone concluding it is therefore less disruptive to the game<br>
to ignore unit designations Which is what you are doing by assuming:<br>
<br>
> [W]hen a player names an area occupied by that player,<br>
> no matter what unit designation is used -- he wants that unit to do<br>
> something.<br>
<br>
That's a legitimate human factors argument. But ambiguous? No, "A Lon" is<br>
not ambiguous in the least. It clearly does not "admit of two meanings".<br>
<br>
> If he happens to misorder it otherwise -- telling an army<br>
> to move to sea, or a fleet inland, or affecting a space it can<br>
> otherwise not affect (ie, A Lon - Ber), then fine. Poorly written?<br>
> Very much so. Illegal? Not in my opinion.<br>
<br>
I would hold up "A Lon - Ber" as the very definition of an illegal order.<br>
Did I misread you?<br>
<br>
> [O]ne of the other players (who, as it<br>
> happened, was Edi Birsan) pointed out that since "Swe - Nor" could<br>
> have only one possible legal interpretation, it should have been<br>
> considered a legal move.<br>
<br>
I want to make sure we're clear on the phrasing. "Swe - Nor" has only one<br>
possible interpretation which results in a legal move. That's different<br>
from saying that "Swe - Nor" has one possible legal interpretation. That<br>
difference can be important depending upon how you construe the sentence in<br>
the rulebook which says, "An order which admits of two meanings is not<br>
followed." Does an order which has two or more possible interpretations,<br>
only one of which results in a legal move, "admit of two meanings"? The<br>
answer to that question resolves a great many misorder disputes.<br>
Unfortunately for us, the rulebook doesn't explicitly answer it. Which is<br>
why we have the Model House Rules.<br>
<br>
-Adam<br>
<br>
</p>
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