Re: [DipKnights] Re: Re: (Cat23's Life, or Lack Thereof)

Cool. I'm glad that you see all that and, most important, that you seem 
to be able to implement the necessary changes. 8-)

I thought what I was proposing was the "dolphin", that the "whale" was 
to create a new hom page and other innovations. It may all be a matter 
of subjective perception but the four ideas I proposed just tried to 
improve what we already have, without building anything really new.

I happen not to be member of all Cat23 lists, I would have missed this 
discussion if it happened in the chat, for instance. That would be 
another advantage for a forum, where you can easily browse all sections 
without any extra effort: you can skip the trivial chat (that's what I 
understand for "chat": more or less trivial unrelated stuff) if you wish 
while being aware of important discussions as this one within a normal 
visit and without getting all the not-really-desired irrelevant mail. 
But, well... maybe in the future.

As for Realpolitik, it just works well, it's free and, if you are able 
to dedicate it some time, it allows for the implementation of almost any 
variants (no need of knowing any programming, just being systematic and 
careful with the details). Maybe you know of better digital 
board-and-adjudicators for Diplomacy but I do not. I agree that the map 
coloring is only so-so but I invest just a fraction of the time I would 
use in hand-adjudicating in coloring them on my own style.

Well, anyhow, I'm really glad that you are already on it. Those 
improvements are much needed because the portal is surely the way most 
newcomers can reach the lists and the actual games.

Enjoy,
Luis.





Chris Babcock wrote:

>--- Luis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Can we reorganize the worldmasters' Cat23 subpage?
>>    
>>
>
>Absolutely. I would like nothing better. 
>
>  
>
>>I don't want to 
>>detract from bigger changes but small adaptative
>>"dolphin projects" are 
>>often more feasible than large "whale" ones, as my
>>sister says so often.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually you are proposing the whale, but that's
>actually the best way to get me engaged. The worst
>that could happen is that I might delay work on the
>present site if there is significant interest in a
>complete rewrite. I haven't read anything yet that I
>interpret as a commitment, so you're in no danger of
>discouraging me. 
>
>  
>
>>The two most important things to start with should
>>be:
>>
>>1. A clearer inroductory page that explains that
>>Cat23 is an open PBEM 
>>Diplomacy club that welcomes everybody with interest
>>for the hobby, with 
>>maybe a brief history to add some flavor - I can't
>>help with that: I'm only in my late 30s ;-)
>>    
>>
>
>I *really* am in my late 30's and I really would like
>someone to either donate text content or point me to a
>DipPouch article or similar source for historical and
>"group identity" data.
>
>  
>
>>2. An easily linkable Yahoo-groups links list (and
>>not that mirror). 
>>    
>>
>
>Oh, yeah. I had no plans to try to figure out what
>that was. I'm going to delete the iframe and put in a
>link list. 
>
>  
>
>>Explaining and emphasizing which are the most
>>important ones to join 
>>(i.e. n-game and the currently ongoing games list -
>>the 1200s) and the 
>>meaning of the others (we have a large handful of
>>lists, what may be confusing in itself).
>>    
>>
>
>It is. For one, I thought this thread would have
>belonged on the list with "chat" in the name. If I was
>in DipKnights, too, the crossposting would be driving
>me insane. 
>
>  
>
>>3. Additional helpful links for the newcomer: not
>>just GM hints, model 
>>house rules and a link to Dipknights (sincerely, I
>>thought the knights' 
>>project was deceased) but maybe also something as
>>basic as a link to 
>>Realpolitik download, to the game rules (1996 ed?)
>>and maybe relevant 
>>Diplomacy sites like the Diplomacy Archive with all
>>that historical stuff.
>>    
>>
>
>Somebody is going to have to explain to me offlist the
>allure of RealPolitik. It's not the maps, that's for
>certain. 
>
>You're right about the links, of course. I also think
>that links to the Yahoogroups are more important than
>what's there now. This is the organization I propose
>(and will implement unless other content is
>volunteered):
>
>Home - Link to main Yahoogroup. Map will be replaced
>by content when/if provided. 
>
>Lists - A full list of current and past Yahoogroups
>used by Cat23 with descriptions as given on the YG
>page unless someone supplies alternatives. 
>
>Links - Divided into novice, general purpose and GM
>sections. I'll use the ones in this mail, those
>currently on the site and some that I use in novice
>games. 
>
>The whole thing will be done with the yellow on black
>of the Worldmaster's site and existing graphics or
>edits thereof. (I inverted the cat and I can create
>new nav buttons.) 
>
>  
>
>>4. If there is a Diplomacy web ring (and I believe
>>there is one) the 
>>Cat23 page should be part of it with the ring
>>navigation tool on bottom of it.
>>    
>>
>
>A site needs to work to a depth of "two clicks" before
>I'll promote it. We're almost there for the
>Worldmaster's site. The Cat23 folder won't be far
>behind. Your interest has greatly accelerated the time
>table. 
>
>  
>
>>So far the easy-to-do "dolphin project".
>>Additionally larger changes can 
>>be done as well. Personally I believe that a
>>separate portal page and 
>>even creating a forum (in the line of Redscape, for
>>instance) could 
>>help. GMs can find a lot easier to post maps and
>>adjudications to their 
>>game threads in such a space than to upload and
>>modify HTML pages as the 
>>game goes, provided they have a site. The forum
>>would also allow for 
>>general discussions like this to take place in
>>another type of 
>>enviroment. The forum itself seems like an better,
>>more attractive 
>>"bait" for newcomers than email lists alone, that
>>may be percieved as 
>>less friendly and maybe even somewhat prehistoric.
>>    
>>
>
>Redscape is Redscape. I'm certainly capable of
>implementing everything that you describe and I
>probably will for other projects and other groups.
>It's not Cat23, however.
>
>Uploading maps would be useful, however, or even
>better (in terms of storage and bandwidth) generating
>maps from a standard format. 
>
>The worldmasters.net site is going to have the
>capability to function like an adjudication helper,
>but with the bonus of online order entry. This is is
>being developed to reduce dependence on email for the
>2008 Worldmasters. Whatever parts of this
>functionality fit with the Cat23 way of doing things
>can be adapted to suit. 
>
>Chris 
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>  
>


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