Re: A rules questions
Steve Caponigri <[email protected]> Sun, 3 Aug 2008 06:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.new-games,gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.results.twelve-hundred |
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--jaoTqNllM6xpZgsBAHoQRxfpifaNlz2ffp4E089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no interpretation or thinking necessary. Since rule 2 states that the supporting unit must be able to move into the PROVINCE, the support is valid. Gascony can move to Spain. Spain is the province, not Spain (nc). If you make the support order void, then you are saying that Spain (nc) and Spain (sc) are different provinces, and F Mar-Spa (sc), F Gas-Spa (nc) could not bounce, because they are different provinces, and two fleets would be in Spain. --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Babak Talebi <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Babak Talebi <[email protected]> > Subject: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions > To: "1200group" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Douglas Kent" <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 2:57 AM > Friends - > > Two dip players of some experience have come to a > disagreement on a rules > question. If you could shed light on this situation, it > would be most > appreciated. > > *The Situation:* > > F Por to Spa(sc) > F Gas S F Por to Spa(sc) > > *The Question:* > ** > is the order for F Gas *Void* or *Valid* > > *The Rules:* > > On page 7 in the 4th edition of the rules ( > http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf) > two > relevant quotes can be found... > > 1) "A fleet that can move to a province with two > separate coasts (A fleet > in the Mid-Atlantic for example) can support another Army > or Fleet into that > province (in this case Spain) without regard to separate > coastlines." (2nd > paragraph - 2nd column) > > 2) "The province to which a unit is providing support > must be one to which > the supporting unit could have legally moved during that > turn. ...Likewise a > Fleet in Rome could not support a unit's move to Venice > because, although > adjacent by land, the Fleet can not move to Venice from > Rome." (1st > paragraph - 2nd column) > > *The Arguments:* > ** > one reading of these rules is that "If you can move to > a province you can > support ANY action in that province. period". ie - > the fleet in Gas can > support Por to Spa(sc) because it can itself move to Spa > thus making the > support order *Valid*. > > the second reading is that since Spa(sc) is not a province > that the > supporting unit (F Gas) 'could have legally moved' > to, it is thus an illegal > support and therefore *Void*. > > > I leave this earth-shattering question to these august > bodies of wisdom on > Cat23 and look forward to reading various judicious > opinions on the > matter. Has this been resolved elsewhere? > > I am told by my fellow diplomacy player that he is 100% > positive of his > position and since I hold him and his experience in high > regard, I am > inclined to agree with him - but felt that due to my minor > doubt, I should > consult with the rest of the village elders first. (ps. I > still have not > told you all which position I have taken in this) > > Babak > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --jaoTqNllM6xpZgsBAHoQRxfpifaNlz2ffp4E089 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin:0; padding:0 25px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text"> <p>There is no interpretation or thinking necessary. Since rule 2 states that the supporting unit must be able to move into the PROVINCE, the support is valid. Gascony can move to Spain. Spain is the province, not Spain (nc). If you make the support order void, then you are saying that Spain (nc) and Spain (sc) are different provinces, and F Mar-Spa (sc), F Gas-Spa (nc) could not bounce, because they are different provinces, and two fleets would be in Spain.<br> <br> --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Babak Talebi <<a href="mailto:babaktalebi%40gmail.com">babaktalebi@<wbr>gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > From: Babak Talebi <<a href="mailto:babaktalebi%40gmail.com">babaktalebi@<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br> > Subject: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions<br> > To: "1200group" <<a href="mailto:CAT23-1200%40yahoogroups.com">CAT23-1200@yahoogro<wbr>ups.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:Cat23-ngame%40yahoogroups.com">Cat23-ngame@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>, "Douglas Kent" <<a href="mailto:diplomacyworld%40yahoo.com">diplomacyworld@<wbr>yahoo.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:dipknight%40yahoogroups.com">dipknight@yahoogrou<wbr>ps.com</a><br> > Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 2:57 AM<br> > Friends -<br> > <br> > Two dip players of some experience have come to a<br> > disagreement on a rules<br> > question. If you could shed light on this situation, it<br> > would be most<br> > appreciated.<br> > <br> > *The Situation:*<br> > <br> > F Por to Spa(sc)<br> > F Gas S F Por to Spa(sc)<br> > <br> > *The Question:*<br> > **<br> > is the order for F Gas *Void* or *Valid*<br> > <br> > *The Rules:*<br> > <br> > On page 7 in the 4th edition of the rules (<br> > <a href="http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf">http://www.diplomac<wbr>y-archive.<wbr>com/resources/<wbr>rulebooks/<wbr>2000AH4th.<wbr>pdf</a>)<br> > two<br> > relevant quotes can be found...<br> > <br> > 1) "A fleet that can move to a province with two<br> > separate coasts (A fleet<br> > in the Mid-Atlantic for example) can support another Army<br> > or Fleet into that<br> > province (in this case Spain) without regard to separate<br> > coastlines." (2nd<br> > paragraph - 2nd column)<br> > <br> > 2) "The province to which a unit is providing support<br> > must be one to which<br> > the supporting unit could have legally moved during that<br> > turn. ...Likewise a<br> > Fleet in Rome could not support a unit's move to Venice<br> > because, although<br> > adjacent by land, the Fleet can not move to Venice from<br> > Rome." (1st<br> > paragraph - 2nd column)<br> > <br> > *The Arguments:*<br> > **<br> > one reading of these rules is that "If you can move to<br> > a province you can<br> > support ANY action in that province. period". ie -<br> > the fleet in Gas can<br> > support Por to Spa(sc) because it can itself move to Spa<br> > thus making the<br> > support order *Valid*.<br> > <br> > the second reading is that since Spa(sc) is not a province<br> > that the<br> > supporting unit (F Gas) 'could have legally moved'<br> > to, it is thus an illegal<br> > support and therefore *Void*.<br> > <br> > <br> > I leave this earth-shattering question to these august<br> > bodies of wisdom on<br> > Cat23 and look forward to reading various judicious<br> > opinions on the<br> > matter. Has this been resolved elsewhere?<br> > <br> > I am told by my fellow diplomacy player that he is 100%<br> > positive of his<br> > position and since I hold him and his experience in high<br> > regard, I am<br> > inclined to agree with him - but felt that due to my minor<br> > doubt, I should<br> > consult with the rest of the village elders first. (ps. I<br> > still have not<br> > told you all which position I have taken in this)<br> > <br> > Babak<br> > <br> > <br> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> <br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span> <!-- Start the section with Message In topic --> <div id="ygrp-actbar"> <span class="left"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/message/6693;_ylc=X3oDMTMzaWNwcmw4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNjY5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMTc3NzE1NjQEdHBjSWQDNjY5Mw--"> Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">4</span>) </span> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvZTlqdmlrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNjY5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyMTc3NzE1NjQ-?act=reply&messageNum=6696"> <span class="bld"> Reply </span> (via web post) </a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkODJibmIwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjE3NzcxNTY0" class="bld"> Start a new topic </a> </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vitnav"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkajR0MWlsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjE3NzcxNTYz">Messages</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZm85N3FkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzc3MTU2Mw--">Files</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbTNzbDI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjE3NzcxNTYz">Photos</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbHVsbDUyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzc3MTU2Mw--">Links</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiaXBocm5wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzc3MTU2Mw--">Database</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYjVhZHBqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzc3MTU2Mw--">Polls</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNGN1NHNqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjE3NzcxNTYz">Members</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-Ngame/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJjOXE0M2VvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDY2FsBHN0aW1lAzEyMTc3NzE1NjM-">Calendar</a> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-grft"> </div> <!-- yahoo logo --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-ft"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjYTkwczRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MTM5MgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyMTc3NzE1NjQ-"> <img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! 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