Re: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions

More to the point, RP does NOT have a glitch - per se - RP allows you
to select the coast in Spain to which the support is offered.  Sure it doesn't
matter so the program assumes the GM knows the rules.  I do not believe
that RP was made to be idiot proof.  And as I have been saying for years:

"If you make something idiot proof, the idiots will proof YOU wrong."




----- Original Message ----
From: Luis <[email protected]>
To: Douglas Kent <[email protected]>
Cc: Babak Talebi <[email protected]>; 1200group <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 11:58:24 AM
Subject: Re: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions


Ok, Doug. I stand corrected. I should have checked RP before posting but 
it looked sooo obvious to me. Enfin. :-[

Luis.

Douglas Kent wrote:

> This rules question comes up quite frequently.  But it has been 
> settled numerous times.  There are two issues at work here.  F Gas 
> **can** support any move into Spain (and yes Luis, Realpolitik shows 
> it as successful, not void, although that should not be your absolute 
> judge on the subject).  This is because F Gas can move to Spain.  The 
> logic behind this is F Gas is capable of disrupting the defenses of 
> Spain, because it can move there.  Coasts are not of importance in 
> this matter.
> 
> The confusion comes in that the reverse is NOT true.  F Spa(sc) cannot 
> support a move into Gascony.  This is because F Spa(sc) cannot move to 
> Gascony.  So it cannot disrupt Gascony's defenses. 
> 
> If you can move to the province (Coasts are not separate provinces) 
> you can support a move into it or support the unit to hold. 
> 
> However, F Gas cannot support F Spa(sc) to Mar.  Because it cannot 
> move there.
> 
> As Luis said, you can generally use Realpolitik for this.  His only 
> mistake is saying the Realpolitik result is Void.  It is not.  The 
> support succeeds.  Go run it, Luis. 
> 
> Of this rule I am 100% secure.
> 
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you survive without Helpful Kitty merchandise? 
> http://www.cafepres s.com/helpfulkit ty
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Luis <lialdamiz@euskalnet .net> wrote:
>
>     From: Luis <lialdamiz@euskalnet .net>
>     Subject: Re: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions
>     To: "Babak Talebi" <babaktalebi@ gmail.com>
>     Cc: "1200group" <CAT23-1200@yahoogro ups.com>,
> Cat23-ngame@ yahoogroups. com, "Douglas Kent"
>     <diplomacyworld@ yahoo.com>, dipknight@yahoogrou ps.com
>     Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 5:31 AM
>
>     Void. Gascony does not border Spain/sc and you can only support
>     into provinces you are able to move in directly; for fleet
>     puprposes, that affects to "semi-provinces" (coasts) too. Would it
>     be A Gas S... then it would be perfectly valid.
>
>     In doubt (and only for Standard Dip), run Realpolitik and see what
>     happens. In this case it's void.
>
>     Luis.
>
>
>     Babak Talebi wrote:
>
>>     Friends -
>>
>>     Two dip players of some experience have come to a disagreement on
>>     a rules
>>     question. If you could shed light on this situation, it would be most
>>     appreciated.
>>
>>     *The Situation:*
>>
>>     F Por to Spa(sc)
>>     F Gas S F Por to Spa(sc)
>>
>>     *The Question:*
>>     **
>>     is the order for F Gas *Void* or *Valid*
>>
>>     *The Rules:*
>>
>>     On page 7 in the 4th edition of the rules (
>> http://www.diplomac y-archive. com/resources/ rulebooks/
>>     2000AH4th. pdf
>>     <http://www.diplomac y-archive. com/resources/ rulebooks/ 2000AH4th. pdf>)
>>     two
>>     relevant quotes can be found...
>>
>>     1) "A fleet that can move to a province with two separate coasts
>>     (A fleet
>>     in the Mid-Atlantic for example) can support another Army or
>>     Fleet into that
>>     province (in this case Spain) without regard to separate
>>     coastlines." (2nd
>>     paragraph - 2nd column)
>>
>>     2) "The province to which a unit is providing support must be one
>>     to which
>>     the supporting unit could have legally moved during that turn.
>>     ...Likewise a
>>     Fleet in Rome could not support a unit's move to Venice because,
>>     although
>>     adjacent by land, the Fleet can not move to Venice from Rome." (1st
>>     paragraph - 2nd column)
>>
>>     *The Arguments:*
>>     **
>>     one reading of these rules is that "If you can move to a province
>>     you can
>>     support ANY action in that province. period". ie - the fleet in
>>     Gas can
>>     support Por to Spa(sc) because it can itself move to Spa thus
>>     making the
>>     support order *Valid*.
>>
>>     the second reading is that since Spa(sc) is not a province that the
>>     supporting unit (F Gas) 'could have legally moved' to, it is thus
>>     an illegal
>>     support and therefore *Void*.
>>
>>     I leave this earth-shattering question to these august bodies of
>>     wisdom on
>>     Cat23 and look forward to reading various judicious opinions on the
>>     matter. Has this been resolved elsewhere?
>>
>>     I am told by my fellow diplomacy player that he is 100% positive
>>     of his
>>     position and since I hold him and his experience in high regard, I am
>>     inclined to agree with him - but felt that due to my minor doubt,
>>     I should
>>     consult with the rest of the village elders first. (ps. I still
>>     have not
>>     told you all which position I have taken in this)
>>
>>     Babak
>>
>>     .
>>
>> 
>
>

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