Re: Water tight opt-in (yet another FUSSP)

"Neil Schwartzman" <[email protected]> 31 Dec 2013 13:34:35 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.asrg
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Alessandro,

I=92d like to ask you a fundamental question - what problem are you =
trying to solve?


Neil Schwartzman
Executive Director
Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
http://cauce.org
Tel : (303) 800-6345
Twitter : @cauce




On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Alessandro Vesely <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun 29/Dec/2013 18:56:25 +0100 Gordon Peterson wrote:
>> This whole thing seems to me like a solution in search of a problem.  =
 I
>> don't believe that most ISPs want to serve as intermediaries between
>> their users and (legitimate, at least) list services.
>>=20
>> I've been involved with (say) Yahoogroups for more than ten years. =
You
>> subscribe, you get an e-mailed confirmation request, you reply to =
that
>> by e-mail, and you're in.  You unsubscribe either at the website, or
>> with an e-mail message (again, confirmed).  Just not a problem.
>=20
> 98% agree, as Yahoogroups and classical mailing lists (like this one)
> are respectful of users' privacy.  There are still two points (to =
100%):
> One is that list owners have no evidence of subscription, should it be
> needed.  The other point is that IMAP and webmail users can get the
> ability to direct specific mail streams to specific folders in their
> mailbox, at the same time as they confirm subscriptions.
>=20
>> Those of us that use Thunderbird mail client software, in the case of
>> prolific repeating list services and companies that don't respect
>> unsubscribe requests, it's easy enough to set up a mail filter rule =
that
>> just t-cans all incoming mail from that address or domain.
>=20
> Some senders use several domains and IP addresses.  And some users =
read
> mail from multiple clients.  For disrespectful senders, eliminating =
the
> corresponding disposable address is way more effective.  That's where
> this solution pays off, also due to the fortunate coincidence that =
such
> senders often promise to never disclose addresses.  Since, unlike
> mailing lists, personal replies are not possible, users can exploit
> obscurely tagged addresses without worries.
>=20
> Ale
> -
> This is the asrg mailing list.  To change your subscription settings, =
see
> http://lists.services.net/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr/domain=3Dlists.gurus.org
>=20


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after-white-space;">Alessandro,<div><br></div><div>I=92d like to ask you =
a fundamental question - what problem are you trying to =
solve?</div><div><br></div><div><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><div =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
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word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div>Neil =
Schwartzman</div><div>Executive Director</div><div>Coalition Against =
Unsolicited Commercial Email</div><div><a =
href=3D"http://cauce.org">http://cauce.org</a></div><div>Tel : (303) =
800-6345</div></div><div>Twitter : @cauce</div><div><br></div></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Alessandro Vesely &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sun =
29/Dec/2013 18:56:25 +0100 Gordon Peterson wrote:<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">This whole thing seems to me like a solution in search of =
a problem. &nbsp;&nbsp;I<br>don't believe that most ISPs want to serve =
as intermediaries between<br>their users and (legitimate, at least) list =
services.<br><br>I've been involved with (say) Yahoogroups for more than =
ten years. You<br>subscribe, you get an e-mailed confirmation request, =
you reply to that<br>by e-mail, and you're in. &nbsp;You unsubscribe =
either at the website, or<br>with an e-mail message (again, confirmed). =
&nbsp;Just not a problem.<br></blockquote><br>98% agree, as Yahoogroups =
and classical mailing lists (like this one)<br>are respectful of users' =
privacy. &nbsp;There are still two points (to 100%):<br> One is that =
list owners have no evidence of subscription, should it be<br>needed. =
&nbsp;The other point is that IMAP and webmail users can get =
the<br>ability to direct specific mail streams to specific folders in =
their<br>mailbox, at the same time as they confirm =
subscriptions.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Those of us that use =
Thunderbird mail client software, in the case of<br>prolific repeating =
list services and companies that don't respect<br>unsubscribe requests, =
it's easy enough to set up a mail filter rule that<br>just t-cans all =
incoming mail from that address or domain.<br></blockquote><br>Some =
senders use several domains and IP addresses. &nbsp;And some users =
read<br>mail from multiple clients. &nbsp;For disrespectful senders, =
eliminating the<br>corresponding disposable address is way more =
effective. &nbsp;That's where<br>this solution pays off, also due to the =
fortunate coincidence that such<br>senders often promise to never =
disclose addresses. &nbsp;Since, unlike<br>mailing lists, personal =
replies are not possible, users can exploit<br>obscurely tagged =
addresses without worries.<br><br>Ale<br>-<br>This is the asrg mailing =
list. &nbsp;To change your subscription settings, see<br><a =
href=3D"http://lists.services.net/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr/domain=3Dlists.gurus.o=
rg">http://lists.services.net/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr/domain=3Dlists.gurus.org</=
a><br><br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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