Re: Water tight opt-in (yet another FUSSP)
"Neil Schwartzman" <[email protected]> 11 Jan 2014 16:38:04 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.asrg |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail=_9D3A7796-F13A-47D2-8D24-57A043F010C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Neil Schwartzman Executive Director Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email http://cauce.org Tel : (303) 800-6345 Twitter : @cauce On Jan 11, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Richard Clayton <[email protected]> = wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > In message <[email protected]>, Barry Shein > <[email protected]> writes >=20 >> I don't even know if there'd be general agreement that signing up for >> (e.g., doing business with seems to be signing up) ads from a >> generally-agreed-to-be-legitimate-company, opting out later, but = still >> receiving ads is "spam" >=20 > it's not permitted to keep on sending under the EU directive >=20 > it's not permitted to keep on sending under CAN-SPAM >=20 > it's not permitted to keep on sending under the Canadian statute >=20 > how much "general agreement" do you want ? On Jan 11, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Barry Shein <[email protected]> wrote: > Companies are still only beginning to discover email as a potential, > almost zero cost, marketing tool,=20 Barry, that statement might have been true 15 years ago. I don=92t mean = this as a personal slight, but many of the suppositions I=92ve seen on = this thread and others of late not reflect the current email ecosystem = so much as that of the late 1990s. I=92ll make some statements here, debate, disagree as you wish HISTORICAL The problem of botnet spam hitting recipient mailboxes has been solved, = or at least remediated to the point that it is pretty much a non-issue. CURRENT Affiliate spam is a problem. the follow-the-money r=E9gime of Canada=92s = Anti-Spam Legislation will have a very chilling effect on such programs. = DirecTV will be held accountable for spam sent in their name; at = $10,000,000 per email. Problem solved. Account-take over (tickling tiny amounts of spam out over illicit = accounts and accounts with compromised credentials)=20 Still a problem=20 Spam from legitimate companies As noted before CANSPAM, the EU Privacy Directive and CASL cover this = well, CASL gives enforcement agencies the tools, and the threat to use = them. FYI, I am conducting a statistical study to see the effect of the = law for the Canadian Government. Phishing/Spear Phishing Big problem Mobile Spam Huge in Asia/Africa, we=92ve only seen the leading edge of it in North = America. The spam is about to hit the fan bigtime. FUTURE Social media spam Big problem now, will become a huge problem over the next three years IPv6 mail John says it is a thing, Richard says it isn=92t. I think it is a thing and will become a huge thing as developing nations = decide they don=92t want to grovel for IPv4 IP space. I personally believe we will go to an all-whitelist world, wherein most = IPv6 space will be in deny ACL tables. Bottom line for me? If you want to be talking about anything at all = forward thinking - social, mobile, and IPv6. Everything else has the = benefit of almost 20 years work on it, and is well fixed, or at least = fixed to as best a point as we can hope to do (yes, of course both = spammers and spam filter makers will innovate). --Apple-Mail=_9D3A7796-F13A-47D2-8D24-57A043F010C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space;"><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: = auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div = style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: = start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space;"><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: = normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space;"><div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div>Neil = Schwartzman</div><div>Executive Director</div><div>Coalition Against = Unsolicited Commercial Email</div><div><a = href=3D"http://cauce.org">http://cauce.org</a></div><div>Tel : (303) = 800-6345</div></div><div>Twitter : @cauce</div><div><br></div></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div> </div> <br><div><div>On Jan 11, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Richard Clayton <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>Hash: SHA1<br><br>In = message <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">21201.38927.375000= [email protected]</a>>, Barry Shein<br><<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = writes<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">I don't even know if there'd be = general agreement that signing up for<br>(e.g., doing business with = seems to be signing up) ads from = a<br>generally-agreed-to-be-legitimate-company, opting out later, but = still<br>receiving ads is "spam"<br></blockquote><br>it's not permitted = to keep on sending under the EU directive<br><br>it's not permitted to = keep on sending under CAN-SPAM<br><br>it's not permitted to keep on = sending under the Canadian statute<br><br>how much "general agreement" = do you want ?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Jan = 11, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Barry Shein <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br><div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Companies are still only beginning to discover email as a = potential,<br>almost zero cost, marketing = tool, </blockquote></div><br><div>Barry, that statement might have = been true 15 years ago. I don=92t mean this as a personal slight, but = many of the suppositions I=92ve seen on this thread and others of late = not reflect the current email ecosystem so much as that of the late = 1990s.</div><div><br></div><div>I=92ll make some statements here, = debate, disagree as you = wish</div><div><br></div><div>HISTORICAL</div><div>The problem of botnet = spam hitting recipient mailboxes has been solved, or at least remediated = to the point that it is pretty much a = non-issue.</div><div><br></div><div>CURRENT</div><div>Affiliate spam is = a problem. the follow-the-money r=E9gime of Canada=92s Anti-Spam = Legislation will have a very chilling effect on such programs. DirecTV = will be held accountable for spam sent in their name; at $10,000,000 per = email. Problem solved.</div><div><br></div><div>Account-take over = (tickling tiny amounts of spam out over illicit accounts and accounts = with compromised credentials) </div><div>Still a = problem </div><div><br></div><div>Spam from legitimate = companies</div><div>As noted before CANSPAM, the EU Privacy Directive = and CASL cover this well, CASL gives enforcement agencies the tools, and = the threat to use them. FYI, I am conducting a statistical study to see = the effect of the law for the Canadian = Government.</div><div><br></div><div>Phishing/Spear = Phishing</div><div>Big problem</div><div><br></div><div>Mobile = Spam</div><div>Huge in Asia/Africa, we=92ve only seen the leading edge = of it in North America. The spam is about to hit the fan = bigtime.</div></div></div><br><div>FUTURE</div><div>Social media = spam</div><div>Big problem now, will become a huge problem over the next = three years</div><div><br></div><div>IPv6 mail</div><div>John says it is = a thing, Richard says it isn=92t.</div><div><br></div><div>I think it is = a thing and will become a huge thing as developing nations decide they = don=92t want to grovel for IPv4 IP space.</div><div><br></div><div>I = personally believe we will go to an all-whitelist world, wherein most = IPv6 space will be in deny ACL tables.</div><div><br></div><div>Bottom = line for me? If you want to be talking about anything at all forward = thinking - social, mobile, and IPv6. Everything else has the benefit of = almost 20 years work on it, and is well fixed, or at least fixed to as = best a point as we can hope to do (yes, of course both spammers and spam = filter makers will innovate).</div><div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_9D3A7796-F13A-47D2-8D24-57A043F010C1--