Re: Water tight opt-in (yet another FUSSP)

"Neil Schwartzman" <[email protected]> 11 Jan 2014 17:08:28 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.asrg
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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On Jan 11, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Alessandro Vesely <[email protected]> wrote:

> Whatever is the solution we have, it must leave something to be
> desired, given that many people use tagged addresses by hand.

That almost sounds like the Pauline Kael protestation about Nixon =
(no-one I know voted for him). Honestly, there may be a lot of people =
who use them in your circles, which probably are constituted by a lot of =
email professionals but tagged addresses are pretty much a fringe =
activity.

Apple iCloud offers five aliases to go along with each account, I=92m =
sure at least some people use those to hand out to people they deem =
dodgy, then ditch them if they turn out to be correct, but for the most =
part people use freemail accounts like that. I=92m sure Richard could =
comment in vague terms about the great Yahoo! clawback of 2013, which =
probably had some amount of account abandoment due to spam, not sure if =
that is the same thing as setting up an address to receive mail of a =
circumspect nature, but a subset must have been that too.


> Permission data collected by a sender on its own can be easily forged.
> I'm always surprised to I hear it bears some legal value.  A
> confirmation signed by a recipient-side curator would allow a sender
> to accomplish that need in a well-defined way.


These people have a partial solution; they aren=92t the trusted third =
party one might hope for (some Costa Rican guy who does web design) but =
it is a start at something I=92ve been formulating for a while in light =
of a need for a trusted permission repository.

http://www.optguard.com/?vsmaid=3D12

forged subscription information doesn=92t scale and wouldn=92t deflect =
an investigation by sa, the CRTC who will be relying upon ISP complaint =
data as well as a purpose-built spamtrap network, and data from a =
variety of major sources.

IOW - a sender under investigation could fake one, or even a hundred =
subscriptions, but for them to do spamming that is worth anything they =
need to do it at scale and that makes catching them easy.

Also, an innocent sender will be able to pull out IP-based information =
on opens and clicks that should for the most part concur with the signup =
data.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">On Jan =
11, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Alessandro Vesely &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Whatever =
is the solution we have, it must leave something to be<br><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">desired, given that many people use tagged addresses by =
hand.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"></blockquote><div><br></div>That almost sounds like the Pauline =
Kael protestation about Nixon (no-one I know voted for him). Honestly, =
there may be a lot of people who use them in your circles, which =
probably are constituted by a lot of email professionals but tagged =
addresses are pretty much a fringe =
activity.</div><div><br></div><div>Apple iCloud offers five aliases to =
go along with each account, I=92m sure at least some people use those to =
hand out to people they deem dodgy, then ditch them if they turn out to =
be correct, but for the most part people use freemail accounts like =
that. I=92m sure Richard could comment in vague terms about the great =
Yahoo! clawback of 2013, which probably had some amount of account =
abandoment due to spam, not sure if that is the same thing as setting up =
an address to receive mail of a circumspect nature, but a subset must =
have been that too.<br><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Permission data collected by a sender on its own can be =
easily forged.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">I'm always surprised to I hear it bears some legal value. =
&nbsp;A</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">confirmation signed by a recipient-side curator would allow =
a sender</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">to accomplish that need in a well-defined =
way.</span></blockquote><br></div><div><br></div><div>These people have =
a partial solution; they aren=92t the trusted third party one might hope =
for (some Costa Rican guy who does web design) but it is a start at =
something I=92ve been formulating for a while in light of a need for a =
trusted permission repository.</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.optguard.com/?vsmaid=3D12">http://www.optguard.com/?vsm=
aid=3D12</a></div><div><br></div><div>forged subscription information =
doesn=92t scale and wouldn=92t deflect an investigation by sa, the CRTC =
who will be relying upon ISP complaint data as well as a purpose-built =
spamtrap network, and data from a variety of major =
sources.</div><div><br></div><div>IOW - a sender under investigation =
could fake one, or even a hundred subscriptions, but for them to do =
spamming that is worth anything they need to do it at scale and that =
makes catching them easy.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, an innocent =
sender will be able to pull out IP-based information on opens and clicks =
that should for the most part concur with the signup =
data.</div><br></body></html>=

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