[ippm] Re: [bmwg] Re: Joint BMWG/IPPM chartering - imp lementation policy
Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=40jisc.ac.uk-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]> Wed, 13 May 2026 12:54:35 +0000
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http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312"> </head> <body> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Can we generally just point to the standards process documents for what is = required for, say, Proposed Standard, and thus for a draft to advance to a = successful WG and IETF last call?</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Section 6.1.1 here:</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-procon-2026bis/" dat= a-outlook-id=3D"97114d1f-ebab-4f2a-b1af-a08da4cea42a">https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-procon-2026bis/</a></div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Do we need this in the charter when our processes have expectations?</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Tim</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se= rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div id=3D"mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di= rection: ltr;"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> </div> <div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">On 13/05/20= 26, 00:57, "Qin Wu" <bill.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]>= wrote:</div> <div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di= rection: ltr;"> <br> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-family: =CB= =CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Alex:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-family: =CB= =CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Regarding option 1, you might see this option from different angle, e.g., c= hair perspective, if option 1 should be respected, chairs can decide = which document can be progressed with higher priority.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-family: =CB= =CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Whatever option we choose, WG might consider to use wiki page to keep track= of implementation status.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-family: =CB= =CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> -Qin</p> <div style=3D"padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border= -style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor curr= entcolor;"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA, sans-serif; font-size= : 11pt;"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Alex Huang Feng [mailto:alex.huang= [email protected]]<br> <b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2026=C4=EA5=D4=C210=C8=D5 17:13<= br> <b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Thomas.Graf-Zc0CTiu5wcBWk0Htik3J/[email protected]<br> <b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]= g; [email protected]<br> <b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> [bmwg] Re: [ippm] Joint BMWG/IPPM chartering - im= plementation policy</span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Dear BMWG and IPPM,</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> I think this proposal is very valuable, notably in OPS, where this implemen= tation policy does not seem to be widely adopted.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Between the options, I like option 2 or 3.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> The reason I don=A1=AFt like option 1 is because it can see by the communit= y that an implementation is still *optional* and could lead to not changing= anything at the end.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> (It seems like the =A1=B0SHOULD=A1=B1 in YANG, where, from the spec, you kn= ow you should do it, but nothing stops an implementor to just disregard it)= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> I think I would start with option 2, and see whether the documents progress= enough with an implementation. Applying a new policy requiring 2 independe= nt implementations could lead to have too many documents failing to progres= s beyond the WG stage.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> And I support the idea of having exceptions. However, as the text below men= tion, they should be justified either in the document or in its write-up.</= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Regards,</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> Alex</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <br> <br> </p> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> On 7 May 2026, at 10:13, <span style=3D"color: blue;"><a href=3D"mailto:Tho= mas.Graf-Zc0CTiu5wcBWk0Htik3J/[email protected]" data-outlook-id=3D"80e6c7fa-74ad-4253-859c-0fdd94644= 2d5" style=3D"color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u>Thomas.= Graf-Zc0CTiu5wcBWk0Htik3J/[email protected]</u></a></span> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">Dear BMWG and IPPM,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">We have with </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><a href=3D"https://github.com/iet= f-ippm/wg-charter/issues/4" data-outlook-id=3D"75822a11-1d19-45d1-b1c6-7bc5= a24eb017" style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom= : 0px;"><u>https://github.com/ietf-ippm/wg-charter/issues/4</u></a></span><= span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size:= 10pt;"> a suggestion from Med to consider adding an implementation policy in the joi= n charter proposal.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">We chairs have been thinking how this could be addressed best in t= he charter and came up with the 3 proposals:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Aptos;">1.</span><span style=3D"font-family: &q= uot;Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;"> &nbs= p; </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">The WG <u>prioritizes</u> documents with implementations.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Aptos;">2.</span><span style=3D"font-family: &q= uot;Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;"> &nbs= p; </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">The WG <u>requires an</u> implementation for standard track documents. In som= e cases exceptions can be applied. Whenever such an exception applies, the = exception justification must be included in the specification document or i= ts write-up.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Aptos;">3.</span><span style=3D"font-family: &q= uot;Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;"> &nbs= p; </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">The WG <u>requires two</u> implementations for standard track documents. In s= ome cases exceptions can be applied. Whenever such an exception applies, th= e exception justification must be included in the specification document or= its write-up.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">The main differences between the choices are underlined.</span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">We would like to have feedback from both working groups on</span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">=A1=A4</span><span st= yle=3D"font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-heigh= t: normal;"> </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">wherever an implementation policy should be added or not</s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">=A1=A4</span><span st= yle=3D"font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-heigh= t: normal;"> </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">wherever those choices make sense or not</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent: -18pt; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001p= t 57pt; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">=A1=A4</span><span st= yle=3D"font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 7pt; line-heigh= t: normal;"> </span><span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 10pt;">which would be the preferred choice and why</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/html/rfc7942" data-outlook-id=3D"19f668c9-0665-4c8a-88f0-e4cf8786add0" = style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u= >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7942</u></a></span><span style=3D= "font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> = ;is a good quick read in regards to implementations and implementation status = section. Rough consensus and running code is part of the IETF DNA. Personal= ly we think it is helpful for the authors if the working group states what = is expected in terms of implementations. There are good reasons for having implementations such as raising quality = of the document and ensure interoperability. But there are also reasons to = progress quickly. For instance in case where there is only a small document= update or a security fix.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">Best wishes</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;">Marcus, Giuseppe, Sarah and Thomas</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif; font-size= : 10pt;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Aptos;"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">_______= ________________________________________<br> ippm mailing list -- </span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-ser= if; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.= org" data-outlook-id=3D"cdf154a3-5beb-4015-935b-0d0d4a5fb00e" style=3D"colo= r: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u>[email protected]= g</u></a></span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-siz= e: 9pt;"><br> To unsubscribe send an email to </span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetic= a, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" data-outlook-id=3D"25869ca5-3564-4a12-802f-1f6da42e80= 28" style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;= "><u>[email protected]</u></a></span></p> </blockquote> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-family:= =CB=CE=CC=E5; font-size: 12pt;"> </p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_DB9PR07MB77716CF9189A9178F722EC08D6062DB9PR07MB7771eurp_-- --===============3956805743206037981== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KaXBwbSBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QgLS0gaXBwbUBpZXRmLm9yZwpUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRv IGlwcG0tbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============3956805743206037981==--