[ippm] Re: [CCAMP]Re: Working group adoption poll on d raft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04

[email protected] Fri, 3 Apr 2026 12:53:00 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.ippm,gmane.ietf.ccamp
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Hi Bin, all,

Thank you for clarifying and for Qin for sharing this CFA.

I tend to agree with Qin's observation. The model is too generic.

With that in mind, and in order to avoid late surprises (and frustration fo=
r authors and WG), I recommend to check that doc falls under the WG charter=
. As currently written, my assessment is that it is not within scope as cca=
mp focuses on non-packet technology-specific per the following (and similar=
 mentions in the charter):

=3D=3D
- Definition of data models and management objects for network control and =
management of ** non-packet technology-specific ** network elements, topolo=
gies, and abstractions.
=3D=3D

Unless the scope is changed, generic methods and models do not belong to CC=
AMP.

Let's please clarify this before making any further action.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : [email protected] <[email protected]>
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 3 avril 2026 14:40
=C0 : 'Qin Wu' <bill.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]>; [email protected]
Cc : [email protected]
Objet : [ippm] Re: [CCAMP]Re: Working group adoption poll on draft-yoon-cca=
mp-pm-streaming-04



Hi Qin Wu,



Thank you for your comments and for forwarding the adoption poll call to th=
e IPPM WG.

Please see our brief responses below.



1. On the applicability of CCAMP

We believe CCAMP is the appropriate venue for this work. CCAMP covers a bro=
ad range of non-packet physical and transport-facing technologies and inter=
faces, including OXCs, OEO switches, ROADMs, TDM switches, transponders, mu=
xponders, optical amplifiers, microwave links, Ethernet switches, and optic=
al pluggables. Because CCAMP addresses such a diverse set of physical inter=
faces and transport technologies, a generic model within CCAMP is needed as=
 a common framework, while allowing technology-specific extensions where ne=
cessary. In this sense, the draft is intended as a generic and extensible P=
M streaming model for network equipment in the CCAMP context, rather than a=
n IPPM-style framework for IP-layer performance metrics.

Also, the IPPM charter states that its work is limited to metrics and metho=
dologies applicable over transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not sp=
ecify measurements over non-IP layers. For this reason, we believe CCAMP is=
 the better fit for this draft.



2. On the distinction between measurement interval and reporting interval

We agree that this distinction should be clarified further in the draft. Ou=
r intent is that the sampling interval defines how often raw PM data is col=
lected, while the measurement interval defines the period over which the sa=
mpled data is aggregated or processed. The reporting interval, by contrast,=
 concerns when notifications are delivered to subscribers, e.g., via the su=
bscription period in YANG Push. We will revise the text to make this distin=
ction more explicit in the next version.



Regards,

Bin

From: Qin Wu <bill.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]<mailto:bill.wu=3D40huaw=
ei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2026 8:38 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [CCAMP]Re: Working group adoption poll on draft-yoon-ccamp-pm-stre=
aming-04


Hi, Authors:

I forward this adoption poll call to IPPM WG since It seems to me that this=
 draft more focuses on generic measurement method and metrics and not speci=
fic to optical network. One quick comment to measurement timing, if my unde=
rstanding is correct, this measurement timing is used to measure metrics or=
 KPIs within network element, the measuring timing parameters include time-=
related parameters of sampling, measuring, and reporting performance data. =
I am wondering whether measuring interval is same as reporting interval, si=
nce I didn't see reporting interval is specified in this draft.



-Qin

[CCAMP]Working group adoption poll on draft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04

"Daniele Ceccarelli (dceccare)" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]=
om>> Fri, 20 March 2026 07:40 UTCShow header<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/a=
rch/msg/ccamp/_mpRnupqH9A9MBRTm-O3l2Ko1Mk/>

Hi working group,



As discussed during the CCAMP session at IETF 125 we're starting the workin=
g group adoption call on draft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04.



The polling will last 2 weeks till Friday April 3rd.





Thanks,

Daniele, Fatai, Luis

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Bin, all,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank you for cl=
arifying and for Qin for sharing this CFA.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I tend to agree =
with Qin&#8217;s observation. The model is too generic.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">With that in min=
d, and in order to avoid late surprises (and frustration for authors and WG=
), I recommend to check that doc falls under the
 WG charter. As currently written, my assessment is that it is not within s=
cope as ccamp focuses on non-packet technology-specific per the following (=
and similar mentions in the charter):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">- Definition of =
data models and management objects for network control and management of **=
 non-packet technology-specific ** network elements,
 topologies, and abstractions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Unless the scope=
 is changed, generic methods and models do not belong to CCAMP.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Let&#8217;s plea=
se clarify this before making any further action.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank you.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Med<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t"> [email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;
<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> vendredi 3 avril 2026 14:40<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> 'Qin Wu' &lt;bill.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]&gt;; i=
[email protected]<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> [email protected]<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [ippm] Re: [CCAMP]Re: Working group adoption poll on dr=
aft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-al=
ign:left"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,san=
s-serif;mso-fareast-language:KO"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi Qin Wu,<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Thank you f=
or your comments and for forwarding the adoption poll call to the IPPM WG. =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Please see =
our brief responses below.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">1. On the a=
pplicability of CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">We believe =
CCAMP is the appropriate venue for this work. CCAMP covers a broad range of=
 non-packet physical and transport-facing technologies and interfaces, incl=
uding OXCs, OEO switches, ROADMs, TDM switches, transponders, muxponders, o=
ptical amplifiers, microwave links, Ethernet switches, and optical pluggabl=
es. Because CCAMP addresses such a diverse set of physical interfaces and t=
ransport technologies, a generic model within CCAMP is needed as a common f=
ramework, while allowing technology-specific extensions where necessary. In=
 this sense, the draft is intended as a generic and extensible PM streaming=
 model for network equipment in the CCAMP context, rather than an IPPM-styl=
e framework for IP-layer performance metrics.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Also, the I=
PPM charter states that its work is limited to metrics and methodologies ap=
plicable over transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not specify measu=
rements over non-IP layers. For this reason, we believe CCAMP is the better=
 fit for this draft. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">2. On the d=
istinction between measurement interval and reporting interval<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">We agree th=
at this distinction should be clarified further in the draft. Our intent is=
 that the sampling interval defines how often raw PM data is collected, whi=
le the measurement interval defines the period over which the sampled data =
is aggregated or processed. The reporting interval, by contrast, concerns w=
hen notifications are delivered to subscribers, e.g., via the subscription =
period in YANG Push. We will revise the text to make this distinction more =
explicit in the next version.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Regards,<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Bin<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;,sans-serif;=
mso-fareast-language:KO"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:KO">From:</span=
></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:KO=
"> Qin Wu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]">bill=
.wu=3D40huawei.com-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 3, 2026 8:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP]Re: Working group adoption poll on draft-yoon-ccamp-=
pm-streaming-04<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:KO"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi, Authors=
:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I forward t=
his adoption poll call to IPPM WG since It seems to me that this draft more=
 focuses on generic measurement method and metrics and not specific to opti=
cal network. One quick comment to measurement timing, if my understanding i=
s correct, this measurement timing is used to measure metrics or KPIs withi=
n network element, the measuring timing parameters include time-related par=
ameters of sampling, measuring, and reporting performance data. I am wonder=
ing whether measuring interval is same as reporting interval, since I didn&=
#8217;t see reporting interval is specified in this draft.<o:p></o:p></span=
></pre>
<h3 style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:1.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:1.5pt;=
margin-left:0cm;background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN;font-weight:normal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></h3>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">-Qin<o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<h3 style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:1.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:1.5pt;=
margin-left:0cm;background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN;font-weight:normal">[CCAMP]Working =
group adoption poll on draft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04<o:p></o:p></span></=
h3>
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;=
font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-al=
ign:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thicknes=
s: initial;text-decoration-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;wo=
rd-spacing:0px" id=3D"msg-info">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe =
UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&quot;Daniele Ce=
ccarelli (dceccare)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">dceccar=
[email protected]</a>&gt;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"pipe"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:ZH-CN">Fri,
 20 March 2026 07:40 UTC</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN"><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ccamp/_m=
pRnupqH9A9MBRTm-O3l2Ko1Mk/"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">Show
 header</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white;box-sizing: border-box;margin-bottom:1rem;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;overflow-wrap: normal;overflow:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:ZH-CN">Hi working group,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">As discusse=
d during the CCAMP session at IETF 125 we're starting the working group ado=
ption call on draft-yoon-ccamp-pm-streaming-04.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The polling=
 will last 2 weeks till Friday April 3rd.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#212529;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Daniele, Fa=
tai, Luis<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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