[dhcwg] Re: [v6ops] Re: [IPv6]Re: Android now su pports DHCPv6 PD
Mark Smith <[email protected]> Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:49:31 +1000
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.dhc,gmane.ietf.v6ops |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAO42Z2zHv=7HgqMj-USZMutJd8HNh9ad_ySZDZODq+zLgtZk0A@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============3357840068602636603== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025f2a5063ee9b8cf" --00000000000025f2a5063ee9b8cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Tue, 16 Sept 2025 at 19:05, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D [email protected]> wrote: > Recommendations for network operators are written in RFC 9663. Some text > about expected prefix lengths is in section 8 of that RFC. RFC 9762 says > the prefix must be SLAAC-sized, which currently means it must be a /64 pe= r > device. A /48 is fine for a small or medium network, but a campus with te= ns > of thousands of devices on it probably needs more than that. > I would assume (and I'm interested to find out otherwise) that once a network gets to say 30K hosts, then they've moved to BGP as their main routing protocol. 65 536 /64 routes in BGP is a walk in the park, so a /48 for a network of say 50K hosts each with is own /64 and 15K /64s left over for everything else would seem to be a large network. In other words, I think a /48 would suit all but the largest networks. Are there large enterprise or university networks with 10s of 1000s of hosts that aren't using BGP (yet?). Regards, Mark. > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 5:59=E2=80=AFPM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=3D > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Good news, thanks. >> >> >> >> What=E2=80=99s the recommended deployment model for PD to the host in a = campus >> WiFi scenario? I can certainly see advantages for it, as you=E2=80=99v= e >> highlighted in your email. The linked article explains =E2=80=9Cwhat th= is means >> for app developers=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Cwhat this means for enterpris= e/campus network >> operators=E2=80=9D would be useful. >> >> >> >> Is it a given that in a middling or large campus the operator will need >> to now receive more than a /48 from their NREN? Or was that always too >> cautious? A small but growing number here are obtaining LIR status >> directly. >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On 16/09/2025, 09:49, "Lorenzo Colitti" <lorenzo=3D >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> There was a typo in the original post. It was fixed earlier today; it no= w >> says "Android 11 and above" >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski <maze= =3D >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> There's a reddit thread: >> >> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_developers_blo= g_simplifying_advanced/ >> >> First comment: >> >> There's a mistake in the page: running Android and above before the >> end of the year via a Google Play System Update. >> >> Which version? >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:59=E2=80=AFAM Stan Barber <[email protected]> wro= te: >> > >> > Congrats! >> > >> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 6:32=E2=80=AFPM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> FYI, we announced DHCPv6 PD support on Android today: >> >> >> >> >> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simplifying-advanced-n= etworking-with.html >> >> >> >> This change should already be live on most Android devices running >> Android 11 and above. Specifically: >> >> >> >> RFC 9762: if the P flag is set, the device will ask for a SLAAC-sized >> prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. Some devices will a= lso >> disable SLAAC as per the SHOULD in the RFC. Not all devices will support >> this because it requires a kernel change which will be rolling out over = the >> coming months. In future releases, we expect that the prefix will be sha= red >> with downstream devices, wearable devices, VMs, etc. >> >> Heuristic: if the device obtains a default route but not PIO, it will >> ask for a prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. This allo= ws >> DHCPv6-only networks to support Android devices today without having to >> upgrade their routers to set the P flag. >> >> >> >> Over the next few months we also plan to roll out support for DHCPv6 >> address registration (RFC 9686). >> >> >> >> I would like to thank everyone who contributed to RFC 9663, RFC 9762 >> and RFC 9686. We think that DHCPv6 PD is *better* than either SLAAC or >> IA_NA, because it allows the device to provide end-to-end connectivity t= o >> unlimited devices, containers, VMs etc. without scaling load on the >> network. Plus the prefix can be tracked and managed by the operator, whi= ch >> means that it should be possible to deploy it in networks that require >> DHCPv6 or that have scaling issues dealing with many addresses. We hope >> that this will allow at least some enterprise operators to deploy IPv6 t= o >> Android devices. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Lorenzo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > List Info: https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[email protected]/ >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -- >> Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski, Kernel Networking Developer @ Google >> >> _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > --00000000000025f2a5063ee9b8cf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_co= ntainer"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 16 Sept 2025 at 19:0= 5, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected].= org">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg= b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Recommendations for netwo= rk operators are written in RFC 9663. Some text about expected prefix lengt= hs is in section 8 of that RFC.=C2=A0RFC 9762 says the prefix must be SLAAC= -sized, which currently means it must be a /64 per device. A /48 is fine fo= r a small or medium network, but a campus with tens of thousands of devices= on it probably needs more than that.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div= >I would assume (and I'm interested to find out otherwise) that once a = network gets to say 30K hosts, then they've moved to BGP as their main = routing protocol. 65 536 /64 routes in BGP is a walk in the park, so a /48 = for a network of say 50K hosts each with is own /64 and 15K /64s left over = for everything else would seem to be a large network. In other words, I thi= nk a /48 would suit all but the largest networks.</div><div><br></div><div>= Are there large enterprise or university networks with 10s of 1000s of host= s that aren't using BGP (yet?).</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div>= <div>Mark.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le= ft:1ex"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr= ">On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 5:59=E2=80=AFPM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=3D<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">40jisc.ac.uk@dmar= c.ietf.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding= -left:1ex"><div> <div lang=3D"EN-GB"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Good news, thank= s.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">What=E2=80=99s t= he recommended deployment model for PD to the host in a campus WiFi scenari= o?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I can certainly see advantages for it, as you=E2=80=99ve hig= hlighted in your email.=C2=A0 The linked article explains =E2=80=9Cwhat thi= s means for app developers=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Cwhat this means for enterprise/= campus network operators=E2=80=9D would be useful.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Is it a given th= at in a middling or large campus the operator will need to now receive more= than a /48 from their NREN?=C2=A0 Or was that always too cautious?=C2=A0 A= small but growing number here are obtaining LIR status directly.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Tim </span><span= style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p> <div id=3D"m_-8902354524021554512m_7788389079499085868mail-editor-reference= -message-container"> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">On 16/09/2025, 09:49, &qu= ot;Lorenzo Colitti" <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40google.com@dmarc= .ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<u><= /u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">There was a typo in the o= riginal post. It was fixed earlier today; it now says "Android 11 and = above"<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3= :21<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=AF</span>PM Maciej = =C5=BBenczykowski <maze=3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u>= </p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b= order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4= .8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">There's a reddit thre= ad:<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_develo= pers_blog_simplifying_advanced/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r= /Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_developers_blog_simplifying_advanced/</a>= <br> <br> First comment:<br> <br> There's a mistake in the page: running Android and above before the<br> end of the year via a Google Play System Update.<br> <br> Which version?<br> <br> <br> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:59<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">= =E2=80=AF</span>AM Stan Barber <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> > Congrats!<br> ><br> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 6:32<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-seri= f">=E2=80=AF</span>PM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40goo= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&g= t; wrote:<br> >><br> >> FYI, we announced DHCPv6 PD support on Android today:<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simpl= ifying-advanced-networking-with.html" target=3D"_blank"> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simplifying-advanced-netw= orking-with.html</a><br> >><br> >> This change should already be live on most Android devices running= Android 11 and above. Specifically:<br> >><br> >> RFC 9762: if the P flag is set, the device will ask for a SLAAC-si= zed prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. Some devices will = also disable SLAAC as per the SHOULD in the RFC. Not all devices will suppo= rt this because it requires a kernel change which will be rolling out over the coming months. In future releases, we e= xpect that the prefix will be shared with downstream devices, wearable devi= ces, VMs, etc.<br> >> Heuristic: if the device obtains a default route but not PIO, it w= ill ask for a prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. This all= ows DHCPv6-only networks to support Android devices today without having to= upgrade their routers to set the P flag.<br> >><br> >> Over the next few months we also plan to roll out support for DHCP= v6 address registration (RFC 9686).<br> >><br> >> I would like to thank everyone who contributed to RFC 9663, RFC 97= 62 and RFC 9686. We think that DHCPv6 PD is *better* than either SLAAC or I= A_NA, because it allows the device to provide end-to-end connectivity to un= limited devices, containers, VMs etc. without scaling load on the network. Plus the prefix can be tracked and ma= naged by the operator, which means that it should be possible to deploy it = in networks that require DHCPv6 or that have scaling issues dealing with ma= ny addresses. We hope that this will allow at least some enterprise operators to deploy IPv6 to Android de= vices.<br> >><br> >> Cheers,<br> >> Lorenzo<br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank">[email protected]</a><br> >> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:v6ops-leave@ietf= .org" target=3D"_blank"> [email protected]</a><br> ><br> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<b= r> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><b= r> > List Info: <a href=3D"https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/ipv6@ie= tf.org/" target=3D"_blank"> https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[email protected]/</a><br> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<b= r> <br> --<br> Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski, Kernel Networking Developer @ Google<u></u><u></u= ></p> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div></blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br> dhcwg mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">d= [email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> </blockquote></div></div> --00000000000025f2a5063ee9b8cf-- --===============3357840068602636603== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KZGhjd2cgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIGRoY3dnQGlldGYub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIHNlbmQgYW4gZW1haWwg dG8gZGhjd2ctbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============3357840068602636603==--