[dhcwg] Re: [v6ops] Re: Re: Re: [IPv6]Re: An droid now supports DHCPv6 PD
Daryll Swer <[email protected]> Tue, 16 Sep 2025 18:08:18 +0530
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.dhc,gmane.ietf.v6ops |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CACyFTPFuSeTE63vqBsWXzm9rG6e0Nq1WhunwGL0e4-qeCKNGVA@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============8326063813223510756== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c1eb22063eea6546" --000000000000c1eb22063eea6546 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm working on an IPv6 deployment right now where I accounted for RFC9663 or simply in other words: ia_pd on endpoints. I'm doing /38 per campus, /51 per VLAN, /60 per endpoint, 512 devices per VLAN, 8192 VLANs/VNIs. The reason for /60s is an edge case involving users with compute nodes and their own hypervisors. If I exclude this factor, then /64 per endpoint is sufficient in other more common scenarios. -- Sent from my iPhone On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM, Mark Smith <[email protected]>= wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 16 Sept 2025 at 19:05, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Recommendations for network operators are written in RFC 9663. Some text >> about expected prefix lengths is in section 8 of that RFC. RFC 9762 says >> the prefix must be SLAAC-sized, which currently means it must be a /64 p= er >> device. A /48 is fine for a small or medium network, but a campus with t= ens >> of thousands of devices on it probably needs more than that. >> > > I would assume (and I'm interested to find out otherwise) that once a > network gets to say 30K hosts, then they've moved to BGP as their main > routing protocol. 65 536 /64 routes in BGP is a walk in the park, so a /4= 8 > for a network of say 50K hosts each with is own /64 and 15K /64s left ove= r > for everything else would seem to be a large network. In other words, I > think a /48 would suit all but the largest networks. > > Are there large enterprise or university networks with 10s of 1000s of > hosts that aren't using BGP (yet?). > > Regards, > Mark. > > >> >> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 5:59=E2=80=AFPM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=3D >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> Good news, thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> What=E2=80=99s the recommended deployment model for PD to the host in a= campus >>> WiFi scenario? I can certainly see advantages for it, as you=E2=80=99= ve >>> highlighted in your email. The linked article explains =E2=80=9Cwhat t= his means >>> for app developers=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Cwhat this means for enterpri= se/campus network >>> operators=E2=80=9D would be useful. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is it a given that in a middling or large campus the operator will need >>> to now receive more than a /48 from their NREN? Or was that always too >>> cautious? A small but growing number here are obtaining LIR status >>> directly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> On 16/09/2025, 09:49, "Lorenzo Colitti" <lorenzo=3D >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> There was a typo in the original post. It was fixed earlier today; it >>> now says "Android 11 and above" >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski <maze= =3D >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> There's a reddit thread: >>> >>> >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_developers_bl= og_simplifying_advanced/ >>> >>> First comment: >>> >>> There's a mistake in the page: running Android and above before the >>> end of the year via a Google Play System Update. >>> >>> Which version? >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:59=E2=80=AFAM Stan Barber <[email protected]> wr= ote: >>> > >>> > Congrats! >>> > >>> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 6:32=E2=80=AFPM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> FYI, we announced DHCPv6 PD support on Android today: >>> >> >>> >> >>> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simplifying-advanced-= networking-with.html >>> >> >>> >> This change should already be live on most Android devices running >>> Android 11 and above. Specifically: >>> >> >>> >> RFC 9762: if the P flag is set, the device will ask for a SLAAC-size= d >>> prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. Some devices will = also >>> disable SLAAC as per the SHOULD in the RFC. Not all devices will suppor= t >>> this because it requires a kernel change which will be rolling out over= the >>> coming months. In future releases, we expect that the prefix will be sh= ared >>> with downstream devices, wearable devices, VMs, etc. >>> >> Heuristic: if the device obtains a default route but not PIO, it wil= l >>> ask for a prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. This all= ows >>> DHCPv6-only networks to support Android devices today without having to >>> upgrade their routers to set the P flag. >>> >> >>> >> Over the next few months we also plan to roll out support for DHCPv6 >>> address registration (RFC 9686). >>> >> >>> >> I would like to thank everyone who contributed to RFC 9663, RFC 9762 >>> and RFC 9686. We think that DHCPv6 PD is *better* than either SLAAC or >>> IA_NA, because it allows the device to provide end-to-end connectivity = to >>> unlimited devices, containers, VMs etc. without scaling load on the >>> network. Plus the prefix can be tracked and managed by the operator, wh= ich >>> means that it should be possible to deploy it in networks that require >>> DHCPv6 or that have scaling issues dealing with many addresses. We hope >>> that this will allow at least some enterprise operators to deploy IPv6 = to >>> Android devices. >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> Lorenzo >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] >>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > List Info: https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[email protected]/ >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> -- >>> Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski, Kernel Networking Developer @ Google >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> > dhcwg mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > [image: 9eb9e675cfd5983f2907e91254d424679cc4450a] =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B --000000000000c1eb22063eea6546 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">I'm working on an IPv6 deployment right now where I a= ccounted for RFC9663 or simply in other words: ia_pd on endpoints.</div><di= v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm doing /38 per campus, /5= 1 per VLAN, /60 per endpoint, 512 devices per VLAN, 8192 VLANs/VNIs.</div><= div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The reason for /60s is an edge= case involving users with compute nodes and their own hypervisors. If I ex= clude this factor, then /64 per endpoint is sufficient in other more common= scenarios.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">--<br></div>= <div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signatu= re" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Sent from my iPhone</div></div></div= ><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM= , Mark Smith <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">markzzzsmith@gma= il.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;paddi= ng-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</= div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On= Tue, 16 Sept 2025 at 19:05, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= g</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-le= ft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr">Recommendations= for network operators are written in RFC 9663. Some text about expected pr= efix lengths is in section 8 of that RFC.=C2=A0RFC 9762 says the prefix mus= t be SLAAC-sized, which currently means it must be a /64 per device. A /48 = is fine for a small or medium network, but a campus with tens of thousands = of devices on it probably needs more than that.</div></blockquote><div><br>= </div><div>I would assume (and I'm interested to find out otherwise) th= at once a network gets to say 30K hosts, then they've moved to BGP as t= heir main routing protocol. 65 536 /64 routes in BGP is a walk in the park,= so a /48 for a network of say 50K hosts each with is own /64 and 15K /64s = left over for everything else would seem to be a large network. In other wo= rds, I think a /48 would suit all but the largest networks.</div><div><br><= /div><div>Are there large enterprise or university networks with 10s of 100= 0s of hosts that aren't using BGP (yet?).</div><div><br></div><div>Rega= rds,</div><div>Mark.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote= " style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style= :solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"></blockquote></= div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border= -left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Se= p 16, 2025 at 5:59=E2=80=AFPM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=3D<a href=3D"mailto:4= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</= a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p= x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:= 1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div> <div lang=3D"EN-GB"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Good news, thank= s.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">What=E2=80=99s t= he recommended deployment model for PD to the host in a campus WiFi scenari= o?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I can certainly see advantages for it, as you=E2=80=99ve hig= hlighted in your email.=C2=A0 The linked article explains =E2=80=9Cwhat thi= s means for app developers=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Cwhat this means for enterprise/= campus network operators=E2=80=9D would be useful.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Is it a given th= at in a middling or large campus the operator will need to now receive more= than a /48 from their NREN?=C2=A0 Or was that always too cautious?=C2=A0 A= small but growing number here are obtaining LIR status directly.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">Tim </span><span= style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p> <div id=3D"m_-833225765747126784m_-8902354524021554512m_7788389079499085868= mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">On 16/09/2025, 09:49, &qu= ot;Lorenzo Colitti" <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40google.com@dmarc= .ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<u><= /u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">There was a typo in the o= riginal post. It was fixed earlier today; it now says "Android 11 and = above"<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3= :21<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=AF</span>PM Maciej = =C5=BBenczykowski <maze=3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u>= </p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:non= e none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0c= m;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">There's a reddit thre= ad:<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_develo= pers_blog_simplifying_advanced/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r= /Android/comments/1nhzsst/android_developers_blog_simplifying_advanced/</a>= <br> <br> First comment:<br> <br> There's a mistake in the page: running Android and above before the<br> end of the year via a Google Play System Update.<br> <br> Which version?<br> <br> <br> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 3:59<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">= =E2=80=AF</span>AM Stan Barber <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> > Congrats!<br> ><br> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 6:32<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-seri= f">=E2=80=AF</span>PM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40goo= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&g= t; wrote:<br> >><br> >> FYI, we announced DHCPv6 PD support on Android today:<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simpl= ifying-advanced-networking-with.html" target=3D"_blank"> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/simplifying-advanced-netw= orking-with.html</a><br> >><br> >> This change should already be live on most Android devices running= Android 11 and above. Specifically:<br> >><br> >> RFC 9762: if the P flag is set, the device will ask for a SLAAC-si= zed prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. Some devices will = also disable SLAAC as per the SHOULD in the RFC. Not all devices will suppo= rt this because it requires a kernel change which will be rolling out over the coming months. In future releases, we e= xpect that the prefix will be shared with downstream devices, wearable devi= ces, VMs, etc.<br> >> Heuristic: if the device obtains a default route but not PIO, it w= ill ask for a prefix, and if it gets it, use it to form addresses. This all= ows DHCPv6-only networks to support Android devices today without having to= upgrade their routers to set the P flag.<br> >><br> >> Over the next few months we also plan to roll out support for DHCP= v6 address registration (RFC 9686).<br> >><br> >> I would like to thank everyone who contributed to RFC 9663, RFC 97= 62 and RFC 9686. We think that DHCPv6 PD is *better* than either SLAAC or I= A_NA, because it allows the device to provide end-to-end connectivity to un= limited devices, containers, VMs etc. without scaling load on the network. Plus the prefix can be tracked and ma= naged by the operator, which means that it should be possible to deploy it = in networks that require DHCPv6 or that have scaling issues dealing with ma= ny addresses. We hope that this will allow at least some enterprise operators to deploy IPv6 to Android de= vices.<br> >><br> >> Cheers,<br> >> Lorenzo<br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank">[email protected]</a><br> >> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:v6ops-leave@ietf= .org" target=3D"_blank"> [email protected]</a><br> ><br> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<b= r> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><b= r> > List Info: <a href=3D"https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/ipv6@ie= tf.org/" target=3D"_blank"> https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[email protected]/</a><br> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<b= r> <br> --<br> Maciej =C5=BBenczykowski, Kernel Networking Developer @ Google<u></u><u></u= ></p> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div></blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br></blockquote></div></div= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-sty= le:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"> dhcwg mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">d= [email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> </blockquote></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">v= [email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> </blockquote></div></div><span><span style=3D"display:none"><img src=3D"htt= ps://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9eb9e675cfd5983f2907e91254d424679cc4450a.png?u= =3D2153471&isAddon=3D1" alt=3D"9eb9e675cfd5983f2907e91254d424679cc4450a= "></span>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B</span> --000000000000c1eb22063eea6546-- --===============8326063813223510756== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KZGhjd2cgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIGRoY3dnQGlldGYub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIHNlbmQgYW4gZW1haWwg dG8gZGhjd2ctbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============8326063813223510756==--