Re: Yesterday's IETF

On 24-Mar-26 13:57, S Moonesamy wrote:
> Hi Bob, All,
> At 11:53 AM 21-03-2026, Bob Hinden wrote:
>> For a long while now, most chairs are using the
>> meetecho tool to ask questions like this
>> (instead of humming) because it works for local
>> and remote attendees.  Similar to the way we use
>> the Meetecho to join the speaking queue for all attendees (local and remote).
>>
>> "hums" don't work for any remote attendees.
> 
> Thanks for the above information.
> 
> I looked up what the tool offers.  I found out
> that it is a "Show of Hands tool allows session
> chairs to conduct simple yes/no polls of participants."
> 
> There is the following text in Section 1 of RFC 7282:
> 
>     'To reinforce that we do not vote, we have also adopted the tradition
>      of "humming": When, for example, we have face-to-face meetings and
>      the chair of the working group wants to get a "sense of the room",
>      instead of a show of hands, sometimes the chair will ask for each
>      side to hum on a particular question, either "for" or "against".'
> 
> A participant referenced RFC 7282 in a discussion
> [1].  I was a bit intrigued about why working
> group discussions (in general) seemed more heated
> over the recent years.  In yesterday's IETF,
> there were controversies.  It was difficult (I
> could be wrong about this) to successfully
> challenge the determination of consensus.
> 
> In today's IETF, I come across polarized
> discussions.  There are the "I support", "I
> oppose" responses.  I am not inclined to get involved.
> 
> Could the "hums" has fallen in disuse have the
> unintended effect of reinforcing the idea that we do vote?

I don't think so. Asking for a "show of hands" or a "straw poll"
was often practiced too. Not to take a decision, but to give the
chairs an indication of how strong support (or opposition) might
be. Humming preserved anonymity too; I believe that Meetecho hand
counts also preserve anonymity.

None of which exempts any WG from ensuring that all plausible
technical criticisms of a proposed solution have been dealt with,
regardless of hums, hands, etc.

    Brian

> 
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
> 
> 1. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/nVeE4qhVAnLCOfGZcNloENNF34Q
>